Espresso maker

Thanks for all the detailed information! I spent last night educating myself so at least I have the basic terminology down. Wiki actually has a good basic overview of espresso machines, in case there are any others like me who need remedial espresso education: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espresso_machine

I think I'd prefer more manual control vs. a super-automatic type machine, mostly for the fun of doing it but also looks like less stuff to break and maybe a little less expensive.

In general, is the main advantage of single vs. dual boiler the ability to steam milk instantly? Or is temperature stability significantly better?

I was browsing amazon for machines and came across these two: a Breville for about $1,100 and a Gaggia Classic for $400. Other than the Breville being a dual boiler and the Gaggia being a single, what advantages would the Breville or other comparable machines at 3X the cost have?

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The Gaggia can be had for ~220€ here, I doubt it is that much more expensive in the US. Furthermore, you absolutely need a grinder. There is absolutely no need for spending any significant amount of money on a machine if you buy pre-ground coffee. The Mahlkönig (Baratza in the US?) Vario would be a good pairing for the Gaggia.

Generally, I doubt that a beginner would notice much difference between coffee from a 300€ machine compared to a 1500€ one. Better spend the money on quality, freshly roasted (!!!!!!) beans.

 

+1 on the Saeco Vienna Plus. We've got 3 of them in the family. After doing a lot of research I found these to be the best value among superautomatics. My first one lasted over 10 years with daily use and still made great espresso, and could have easily been repaired with a new valve which I just didn't have the patience for at the time.

JTW

 

Ugh ....looks to be a better choice then my just purchased Gaggia classic . They doing my research to get the best value machine for under 500.

 

Nathan-
Sad to say that I'm not familiar and do not have any experience with either the machines you listed above. Chances are the Gaggia will be a decent machine and while Breville's do look nice, I don't know much about how well constructed they are or how long they will last. And if you're willing to consider a $1K+ machine, then there are great alternatives.

There are a couple of companies out there that are better geared to the home enthusiast. Places like: chriscoffee.com and 1st-line.com. They have been serving the consumer market for years. I bought my first espresso machine, a La Valentina HX E61 Automatic, from 1st Line over ten years ago and it's still a great machine.

Right now, 1st Line has a few refurb machines that should be good deals. Models like the GaggiaTE, Vibiemme and Livia90 are all great machines for home use. Even the Rancilio Silvia is a very affordable machine that many users drive hard. At the Chris Coffee site, machines like the Crossland, QuickMill and LaSpaciale are excellent machines for home use, as well as just about all of their HX machines.

Temperature stability is determined by a variety of factors (size of boiler, accuracy of thermometer, etc) and not necessarily whether the machine is single, dual or HX. For your purposes of steaming milk for coffee drinks, I would stay away from single-boiler machines altogether. Those are just frustrating. Dual boiler or HX (heat exchange) is the way to go. Dual does not necessarily have the advantage over HX, if you know how to compensate for the difference. Either model should allow you to pull your espresso at the same time you are steaming your milk - that is the key.

Comparable machines (and those costing more money) will give you better build quality, better components, better performance - of course, that depends on the exact model. But as you move up in scale, the machines do get better and become more suitable for production environments. For example, the La Marzocco GS/3 is designed for the consumer market but is more than capable of working in a production environment, like a cafe.

And while I agree with Far Out that the Baratza is a great grinder and good coffee is a must, my first machine was a $1500 La Valentina and my second machine was a $12K La Marzocco Linea 3AV. Having the best equipment you can afford makes the learning curve just a bit easier. Working on an inexpensive machine (even though it can yield good results) usually means a lot of finesse and a bit of compromise. If you can afford the nice gear, I do recommend it. Easier to work with and if you don't like it and want to get out, the resale tends to be better than the cheaper gear.

Also, if you decide that you want to go with something like the Baratza grinder or other high-end gear, like Compak grinders, Mazzer grinders, or even the La Marzocco GS/3, let me know. I deal in all that stuff and can work out a great price for a fellow F-Chatter.

 

I was referring to Saeco Vienna . I cant justify a >1k machine yet .

 

You can absolutely not compare the espresso from a decent portafilter machine ("decent" starts with the small Gaggia!) with an automatic machine. Stay away from the automatics if you want good coffee.

 

So the Gaggia classic was a choice

 

I don't have one, but it gets great reviews on this site:

Gaggia Classic Brushed Stainless Steel Semi-Automatic Espresso Machine from Whole Latte Love

Great site BTW for info, selection, reviews and price. No affiliation, etc. etc.

JTW

 

Stay away from super automatics. They are expensive and finicky and they simply don't make good espresso. The double boiler adds a lot of stability to the temperature as you suspected. Additionally you get instant and constant steam. Since my wife likes milk drinks this was an essential feature to me. I got a LaSpaziale Mini Vivaldi II from Chris' Coffee probably 7 years ago. I have never once had a problem with it. I never go out for coffee anymore since what I make here is far better than what I can get locally.

 

Nathan - I have the Breville DB, however, I spent half of what you listed, because it was refurbed, and another ~400 on a grinder, which is just as important, especially for this.

They are supposed to rework some bits of the BDB soon, if they haven't already. The one I have is the 900XL, or BES900XL, or they usually just call them BDBs for Breville Double/Dual Boiler.

I also have a naked portafilter, which ran another 80 bucks, pair that with another 35 bucks for VST basket. The only reason why, is because I wanted to be immersed into the experience and learn as much as possible. One advantage with the other basket, it isn't tapered. When you try it in stores, like Williams Sonoma or Sur La Table, pull down the tamper, and put it into the basket. It stops 1/3 of the way down. This doesn't equate to consistency in my opinion, but I'm picky that way. I still use the stock portafilter from time to time.

The BDB is built very well and well thought out. The only complaints would be the inability to descale them without sending them in for service, and the lack of insulation on the steamer. It can get hot! The hot water is great to warm up a cup. When the tray is full, there's a floater that says "empty me". Those little details are worth it IMO. It does have a timer, but mine has recently stopped working and I need to call them up. Which reminds me, they have a dedicated line for the BDBs. It isn't a toaster specialist trying to figure out your espresso machine.

The downsides, since it has all the features of a manual set, you have to pay close attention to the grind, the tamp, and weight, the temp, the preinfusion time, and set it manual time to turn it off at 23 seconds or whatever you wish, just so you get the right amount of crema, and pressure through the espresso. It is tricky, and many times I don't get it right.

One other thing, with the steamer wand, it's great, works fantastic. I have a little thermometer to watch when I need to. But what it's best for - hot chocolate. I never thought about it before, but was at a restaurant a while back and saw someone doing this. Chocolate milk + steamer = oh so awesome hot chocolate. None of that warmed up in the microwave junk that I could never stomach.

If you have any questions, hit me up here, or even on FB.