Scuderia and CS market

In a world where a loaded Turbo S is around 190K USD having a scud or Stradale in the garage at these prices looks pretty good...Especially given they are truly "event cars". Not taking anything away from Porsche--great cars but very different driving experience than a scud.

 

Cars aren't an investment.

 

+1

 

Except for those who bought the F supercars (288 GTO, F40, etc...) 3-4 years ago; now those are going for 3x or more. But then again, most of these guys are holding on to their cars currently, creating a much greater demand than supply, causing an increase in value of these cars...

 

Yes, and I know of this stock that just can't lose! There's no such thing as a sure thing and no one knows what will happen to the price of these cars in the future. I agree with the others: You shouldn't buy a scud as an investment. Sure, the car could appreciate, but there are much better ways to invest your money. Buy the car if you want to have fun and enjoy it. If you don't lose much or even gain some when you sell, consider it a nice bonus.

 

IMHO...Scuderia is a very good and appreciated car, today, but in 10 or 20 years there will be another 4? maybe 5? Ferrari V8 lightweight cars that will catch eyes of potential buyers. Oh yes, there are and will be no more Scuderia produced but honestly ,who would buy a 20 years old 430 Scuderia instead of a 2-3 years old brand new racing stripped lightweight Ferrari for maybe the same or similar price? I wouldn't personally....

I can tell you that I have not seen any friend of mines buying a Challenge Stradale over a Scuderia in terms of "possible price-gain"...they all went for the newer car...and in 3-4 years when Speciale prices will drop many customers will buy the lightweight 458 ,putting other Scuderia on the market.

So will I ...

 

Don't believe that was his point...but some are, as in my FGT which I bought at MSRP and now over 40 thousand from when bought.

 

Not another one of these threads...not to be a downer but c'mon, really?

 

Low mileage FGT Heritage almost double in price now. There is currently one on Mecum with 2,400 miles estimated going between 300-350k.

 

Incoming which is better thread

 

FGTs and Z8s are the 2 modern cars that have increased in value. My wifes Z8 can fetch 25K more than we paid but she unlike me would never sell it,lol


I wont be alive to see my scud go up in value from what I paid but as noted above did not buy it for that.

 

tastes great !
less filling !

 

I agree, however that is not what he is asking. I understand where he is coming from. He wants to know if the car will "hold" value, not be an investment vehicle to pay for his kids college.

I bought a Scud as I wanted a Ferrari that has a good chance of holding value, unlike a 458 or a California. However, these cars are not like the classics. They made way to many of them, have no racing pedigree and have way to much technology in them.

Will the Scuds hold its value, sure it can...will it be worth several hundred K's in the future, I am afraid not.

But what the hell do I know. A Dino years back where 30k. Now they seem to be worth a few hundred K!

 

Tell that to anyone who has bought an F40 or F50, 288 GTO 2 or more years ago! Unfortunately I did not buy an F40 in 2008 because I told myself cars are not an investment...I can't expect it to go up.

Cars in general are not an investment, but some certainly have delivered some very good returns to their lucky owners. Sure many go down in value, but if you pick the wrong stock, commodity etc you will also lose money...

 

What is the real price for a very good Scud or CS these days?

 

A car is much more likely to depreciate than a major stock (not talking penny stocks here). This is why the SP500 climbs on average of 8-10% a year. On average cars depreciate what, 5-10% a year? This is why cars are not an investment, or are a stupid investment. Sure, a select few appreciate significantly, but this is clearly the exception to the rule and buying based on anticipated future appreciation is very speculative at best.

That said, it's your money folks. Invest how you like!

 

Personally, I don't feel that the cars I have bought were done so in anticipation of appreciation--however I tend to buy a subset of cars that is predictably "less likely" to appreciate.

However defining what is an investment and what is not is tricky. The average piece of art if you include mainstream stuff (for example stuff bought at a local mall) also depreciates. That does not mean that a there is no such thing as a fine art investment.

If you buy an average watch, that too will surely depreciate on average. However a vintage patek bought at auction? Well that is a different thing right?

"Cars" "Art" "Watch" that is just too broad.

As for your stock example..sure the S&P has gone up slightly, but there is certainly alot of "survivorship" bias in the numbers.

If you would have bought the original members of the DOW and held them would you call that an "investment" would you have made 8-10%? Doubtful--in fact I think most those companies don't exist anymore!!

If you would have been Enzo's best customer and bought each of hist first few models..how would that have turned out?

The list is below--you can take a look. I have not gone through the trouble of calculating what the return would have been. However, my guess is that the Steamship Company investment may not have turned out so well. Now you could argue that you have some kind of way of "selecting stock" to avoid the survivorship bias. However if you do that then the "stock goes up" argument is not really exactly solid. If you allow "selection alpha" for stock than presumably you would allow it for cars, art, watches, stamps etc..
Chicago & North Western Railway Company Missouri Pacific Railroad Company Chicago, Milwaukee & St. Paul Rail Road Company
Delaware, Lackawanna & Western Railroad Company New York Central Railroad Company Union Pacific Railroad Company
Lake Shore Railway Company Northern Pacific Railway Company preferred stock The Western Union Telegraph Company
Louisville & Nashville Railroad Company Pacific Mail Steamship Company

 

Last I checked, Michael Schumacher is still the only 7-time World Drivers' Champion. I guess you don't follow F1 and are not aware of his involvement in the Scud's development.

Just as an example, you have him to thank for the modern day manettino and steering wheel button controls that exist in all Ferraris from the Enzo and on.

F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport & will always be a part of Ferrari's dna & it's derivative technology will constantly evolve with time...what you deem as a classic now, was cutting edge technology way back whenever. just because it's old doesn't mean there isn't a lot of technology...

Sorry, Ferrari doesn't race in NASCAR.

 

Michael was also responsible for the adjustable shock button,cant remember its official name.

 

Sean, I can't speak to the Scud, but when I was looking for a CS about 4 months ago, the 'good' ones seem to be about $145/155K, with a couple at 170-ish. There were a few down around 135K, but those seemed to either have been damaged or had a lot of miles. In the end, I thought the price for the 'good' CS were just too high and went with a 430 instead.
John

 

+1
buying car as investment is like going to Vegas to "earn" money. Some lucky few will come away with more money but most will lose.

 

I do follow F1, but fail to understand your point . All I said was cars today have a lot of technology that will require special tools and machines to maintain as time goes on. When I talk about "Classics" I am referring to the limited edition and race breed Ferrari's. Michael helped develop the car, not drive it in a race. The racing pedigree I am referring to are the old days Ferraris that were actually used in races. Those are the classics that fetch big bucks.

To your F1 comment.... Just because a F1 champ helps develop a car, doesn't' make it a instant classic. So, let's take Sebastian Vettle, didn't he help develop the new Infiniti Q50? Is that a vehicle that will be a collectable since a F1 world champion helped develop it? I think not.
To your other point, the manettino settings are on Enzo and all cars, does it make the scud special if it is on every other car? I have a Scud, and I love it very much....but facts are facts.

BTW....Schumacher also developed the button to help with road vibration when in race mode. He wanted to be able to have the car at full power but no kill his back on cracks.

You know what the say about assuming things.....

 

Interesting. I have owned my boxer for 20 years, its probably never been less than i paid for it, but at 5k per year on avergae to maintain, well its going to have to be a 200k car to see my money back, add in cost of money and we are looking at what 300k or more. Could happen.

Of the newer ferraris the only one is maybe the CS, and even then its years till the value exceeds current purchase costs and maintanance. Maybe a 430 spider with a stick will have futire value too, its the type of thing they dont make anymore, but itsa all a specualtion and 20 year horizon.

 

Agree, does not make it an instant classic. However, there is a very big difference between Michael Schumacher developing an exotic track focused Ferrari and Vettel developing a middle of the range luxury sedan targeted at Jo consumer and never intended to set foot on a track.