330 GT engine and gearbox question

With too many 330 GTs out there having had their V12s cannibalized for other 'more noteworthy' Ferraris, it would seem logical to assume that there will never be enough replacement Colombo engines to get these 330s back on the road.

So what to do? Carve them up for parts? Allow them an ignominious decline in someone's backyard? Or preserve them as best possible and get them running with a substitute engine? Purists may balk - or scream - in objection, but I would rather see more of these great cars back on the road, even if sporting an engine that Enzo never considered. Will they still be a Ferrari? Only in part, but at least that part is being preserved ... and enjoyed!

Interesting question about the 354/400 engine swap. I've heard from folks that say it would be highly problematic and others who say it'd be easy. Is there anyone out there who may have tried this?

 

Ha ha, but haven't you then just perpetuated the problem! Now you've got a generation of 365/400s without engines...

I thought the guy who did the 250GTE funny car a few years back had the right idea. There is no going back so might as well indulge a sense of humor....

 

True, but a number of 365/400 engines appear on the market these days sans car; not so many Colombos from my experience. But to my point, you can select any suitable engine so long as it keeps a great car on the road.

So I say: Go forth and respectfully and lovingly restore a 330 GT – and if need be drop a Chevy engine in it and call it a 'place holder' until the day comes when it can be reunited with the proper vintage or new reproduction Ferrari V12. That's exactly what I'm doing with my 330 GT 2+2 Series II.

But it's insane to insist that these orphaned Ferraris remain in storage until an authentic Colombo is installed. That's a prescription for more and more of these wonderful cars to simply disappear forever.

 

I think the more common case is that the entire drivetrain -- engine and chassis -- is taken for these recreations. Usually just the body shell is left.

Darren on Fchat has done amazing work to recreate a chassis and is bringing a shell back to life, but unfortunately few have the skills and drive (and guts!) to do this.

If there is a 330 with just the engine missing, then I suspect the vast majority would rather see it brought back to life with a non-standard engine rather than decay in a barn (unless they let it decay so severely that it becomes a multi-million dollar barn find ).

An American V8 would be pretty far from ideal in restoring the feel of the original car, but still better than letting the car rot IMO. An engine from a totaled 365GT4 or 400 would seem to be a pretty tasty combination if if fits and was done right. With the values coming up on 330's, finding a correct motor might not be as cost-prohibitive as it once was.

 

Personally, I've always kept my fingers crossed for a brave soul to undertake a "hot rod" project with one of these derelict bodies: A 456 or 550 V12 or perhaps a 360 or Maserati V8. Far-fetched? Of course. But it'd be a phenomenal project that would be far more interesting (if not correct) than a SBC or Ford plant.

All of that said, I see nothing wrong with people enjoying these "hybrids." If the old motor can't be sourced, so what? Dogmatic adherence to "correctness" keeps quite a few people from enjoying these cars and that, to my eyes, is the most important idea.

 

I assume you are considering the gold series 1 that gullwing has. If so, expect that it will need a total redo. However, there's a 330 block on eBay if you are up for the project.

By the way, breaking up a later Ferrari, like a 365 or 400 would be a shame as they are just as rare. Also the engine install would be difficult. I believe the 4 cam engines are a bit wide for the engine bay of a 330 and all except late series 2 330s used a 4 mount block whereas the 365 and 400 blocks are two mount.

Good luck with whatever project you go with.

Art S.

 

Cheddars' idea of a 456/550 V12 seems like a great plan (if you are OK with the 'hotrod' concept). BUT, by the time you have successfully built this 'creation', you will have spent many many $$$$; these cars with no motor usually also have a myriad other problems to be resolved. It would have to be a 'labor of love'; you would be far underwater when finished.

And the whole time you would be fending off the verbal slings and arrows from the FChat 'puristi'…..that alone would be a deal killer for most…..;-)

 

As the custodian of a great piece of automotive history, the idea with my 330 GT has been to preserve the car as best as possible - within reasonable costs - and get it on the road to enjoy on a regular basis. I purchased the car in fair condition with an old Corvette engine installed by a previous owner after he used the original motor in another of his more valuable Ferraris. I have entrusted the restoration and engine change to my brother Alan at Pathfinder Motorsports.

As any 330 owner will sympathize with, sourcing missing or damaged body parts has been a challenge, but fortunately the previous owner had 'only' removed the engine; the original 5-speed transmission was intact so a custom aluminum adapter plate was created by Alan. After considering a variety of engine options, he recommended an all-aluminum (heads and block), mildly-tuned, completely rebuilt LS1. It has ARP rod bolts, a Z06 cam, Mellings high-performance oil pump, custom headers, and a stock Z06 clutch and pressure plate. Alan was able to use the original 330 GT power steering oil cooler. The original Colombo four-liter was rated at 300 bhp, with the race version having 400 bhp; our LS1 comes in at a little over 390 bhp while weighing less than the Ferrari engine. A custom exhaust was designed and built by a well-known supplier of original Ferrari exhaust systems and tuned to sound as close as possible to a 12-cylinder and not a Detroit V8. (Okay, it's wonderful sounding but certainly not perfect; there's no substitute for the sound of a real 12-cylinder.)

Important to me was to make the engine compartment look correct, if not exact. No new holes were cut, all factory wiring was retained, custom functional dual oil filters installed, and a new set of period correct valve covers sourced (and modified). The idea is not to fool anyone - indeed, I'm proud of the success of the LS1 conversion and love to discuss the engine details - but rather to make an aesthetically pleasing engine compartment that compliments the rest of the car. I'll let others be the judge on how well we did. Someday I hope an original Colombo will once again reside in the engine compartment, but until then I intend to have a ball driving this classic Ferrari when not enjoying my F430. One benefit is that I won't worry about engine mileage or maintenance costs. Ever.

The complete restoration is not yet complete but I thought I'd share a couple of photos of the engine work. The first photo is of the old Chevy engine that came with the car when I bought it and the second is of the recent Pathfinder Motorsports' LS1 conversion.
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Kpete,

Nicely done! Are you putting the bumpers back on?

Regards,

Art S.

PS. If you are running with an uprated American V8, get a set of mag wheels. The torque will overstress the wire wheels, especially with modern tires.

 

Thanks, Art.

As soon as the final details are completed on the body the bumpers will go back. There's still much to do, but I couldn't keep from sharing some photos of the engine. If there's interest I could detail the entire restoration on another thread.

 

As car enthusiasts, most of us have ALWAYS been underwater with our toys! And some might consider the verbal slings and arrows from the puristi as...a badge of honorl? You'd sure get a lot of non-purist respect with a 550-powered classic.

This is a fun hobby, one that shouldn't always be so serious, IMHO. The LS1 conversion of KPete? Hiliarous! The thing must go like stink (though I fear for that gearbox). Personally, I'd prefer the conceptual "purity" of an Italian V8 like the mid-2000's Maserati but, hey, run what you brung and drive it with a smile. It's a 330 GT after all, not a P4. There's a big difference in the need for correctness.

 

Oh, by the way, the raised Ferrari lettering on the covers is supposed to be wrinkle finished just like the rest of the cover

 

I know, I know - and Alan reminded me of that very detail. But as I wrote, I wasn't looking for an exactly correct engine compartment. And to me, the Ferrari reveal just looks ... better.

Mea maxima culpa.

Thanks, Wayne. Much appreciated.

 

KPete,

If you are being nitpicked to this level, it means you've done quite well in terms of appearances.

I understand where you are coming from on the 'reveal'. When I first got mine, I was a bit disappointed to learn that my covers were 'correct'. I guess the longer I've had the car the more I appreciate the subtleties. I think the beauty of these old cars is that they are wonderful even without the labels. While some keep adding shields and badges, I'm thinking of leaving all of the Ferrari labels off for a while once the car is back together. We'll see.

Best of luck to you,

Art S.

 

KPete,
I think you've done a spectacular job with what you had to work with!

Out of curiosity, has anyone contacted Clasiche on the missing engine problem? I'm sure if money were no object they could create a new Columbo. I know they have reproduced blocks already. With the number of lingering gutted "donor cars" out there, perhaps they would realistically consider tooling up for a small production run of say 30. That could keep the economics perhaps to a somewhat reasonable level.

 

My recollection is that a Classiche motor is roughly a $100K proposition. Not sure if that number is right but it's certainly daunting.
If the prices keep going crazy, though, AND if Classiche doesn't jack up prices to ride the wave it could come to pass that some 250's and 330's get a 12 back under the hood.

Thanks for sharing your project to the poster with this 330.

 

Wow!

That would fool a lot of people at first glance.

That's a particularly good job done with the oil filters.

Matt

 

Its a great job of camo.

 

That is an amazing transformation KPete! I couldn't imagine a way to make an American V8 seem right, but there it is. Hope you will post a video once it's back on the road -- it will be fascinating to see it on the road and to hear what you were able to do with the exhaust.

I echo Art's comments that the beauty of Ferrari is in the subtle details and that the black lettering would look better on the valve covers. It also seems like it would be easy to create a platform to allow the firing order plate to be moved to the correct location. The last replacement part bargain on the planet for the early v12's are the "Stars" brake fluid reservoirs that can be had on eBay for about $30 each, so it would be easy to replace that one incorrect cap or maybe replace all three reservoirs.

In my prior comment regarding a 365/400 engine -- I was not suggesting that any Ferrari be sacrificed but rather if an engine could be found from a totaled car that could not be restored. I don't think any Ferrari from any year should be sacrificed, especially not an early V12.

As far as replacement engines, Maserati V8's can be readily had for around $6k, so that seem like a good alternative although I think it's too much power for the chassis. The 2000ish Maserati engines have a ton of electronic CPU's to support them, I wonder if they could be fitted with carbs. I think the 80's Quattroporte engines had carbs and probably a more appropriate power level. I'm not suggesting Maseratis be sacrificed either, but there seem to be many orphaned engines available.

 

Just saw this thread; a splendid conversion! One hidden benefit is that with engine weight set farther back you will likely have slightly better handling than a normal 330GT with the Colombo V-12.

 

I believe gullwing has already sold it.

 

$20k is definitely a more insane price than $79k!