Heat exchangers | FerrariChat

Heat exchangers

Discussion in '348/355' started by drbob101, Jan 30, 2014.

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  1. drbob101

    drbob101 F1 Rookie
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    Nov 26, 2012
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    Bob Ferraris
    Ok, I just read Brian's article in Forza about heat exchanger issues in a 360 and he mentioned similar design in 355s, etc. I was not aware that there was a transaxle heat exchanger in a 355. Can someone educate me. Thank you
     
  2. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
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    #2 Ricambi America, Jan 30, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  3. drbob101

    drbob101 F1 Rookie
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    Thanks Dan. Looking at that diagram it is hard to see all the plumbing. So there is a cooling matrix that surrounds the transaxle? How does 12 cool the transaxle?
     
  4. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
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    12 is a water/oil exchanger. FerrariDublin did a nice write up a few years ago where he cut one apart to show the cross section. It looks like a coffee can packed with drinking straws.
     
  5. drbob101

    drbob101 F1 Rookie
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    You say water/oil. Do you mean water/ trans fluid?


    If so how does the trans fluid get up and back to that exchanger?
     
  6. tr512

    tr512 Formula 3

    Apr 12, 2007
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    Bob
    Both 355 and 360 use the same heat exchanger.the transmission has an oil pump for the oil.
     
  7. drbob101

    drbob101 F1 Rookie
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    Thank you Michael. Learned something tonight. I had no idea of this design.

    The fact that there is an issue in the 360 design that doesn't seem as prevalent ad in 355s is interesting. On reading Brian's article it seems that it substantiates regular gear oil changes as well.
     
  8. sevminasyan

    sevminasyan Formula 3

    Jun 24, 2008
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    Steve
    I had a 355 with 5k miles the exchanger gave out. Drive your cars and more you dive, the less issues you will have.
    I replaced my own. Coolant runs on the inner tiny ports and cools the trans oil that ciculates around the water ports and returns to the trans via the second braided line. If it goes out, water finds its way into the trans since the pressure is higher that the gear oil. Some gear oil also will find its way into the cooling system. Belive me, you will know by the sell in the car while turning the heater on. Does not always mix into the cooling system though. To clean it up, take the whole top of the engine apart between the intake plenums, remove the throthle linkage cable and the heat exchanger. Find a water heater source to hook up to your intake coolant hose and turn the garden or the hoe water heater valve on, open both radiator drain plugs, turn on the heater, connect another garden hose to the return line of the cooling system and start the vehicle for about 30 minutes. When the coolant system is free of oil, put the car back together and hope the new exchanger goes a long way.

    IF need to discuss in further detail, feel free to leave a PM and I will gladly call you

    Steve
     
  9. drbob101

    drbob101 F1 Rookie
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    Thanks Steve. No issues here myself but glad I learned something I wasn't aware of.
     
  10. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Jun 11, 2004
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    Oh boy. Here we go again. Next thing you know it will be, "they all fail; it's just a matter of time." You have the love the BS on this site.

    Ferrari Chat: The eternal sunshine of the clueless mind.
     
  11. drbob101

    drbob101 F1 Rookie
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    It didn't get that bad yet John. In fact if you read Brian's article he says that the issue isn't so prevalent in 355s vs 360s. I just wasn't aware that the mechanism for cooling the gear oil was even on board.

    I plan on changing all my fluids in the spring and it will the first time I will change the gear oil and it seems from the article at least per 360s that is really all you can do and in the 360 case do it yearly rather than biannually.
     
  12. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    I don't think anyone implies that it all fails. If it fails, the process was described as pretty straight forward. I think that is good. My 355 heat exchanger has not failed, but the banjo bolt ($35 piece of aluminum) did crack and was replaced.
     
  13. drbob101

    drbob101 F1 Rookie
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    I was going to post the article from Forza but I don't want to get into any copyright issues. If you aren't a FCA member ask someone who is if you can borrow this months issue to read or maybe Brian will allow it to posted somehow.
     
  14. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Hey Bob. Not aimed at you. It's just that the 355 forum seems to be a dumping ground for any problem anybody has on their car and before you know it, it becomes the next black mark against the 355. Doesn't matter if its a unique problem or one documented to occur on most Ferraris. You know, if you look at the original cost of one of these cars back in 95, around $140k out the door, in today's dollars that's over $300k. So instead of constantly complaining about this or that problem or cheaping out and performing a DIY major because a shop will charge $5-$8k, be thankful you can get your hands on one of these beautiful machines for effectively little more than a loaded Ford Expedition! The place just reminds me of Rosanne Rosannadana, "While answering the questions, she would invariably digress, launching into a lengthy anecdote with no relevance to the topic at hand. Invariably, the story would lead into Roseannadanna's going into disgustingly graphic detail about bodily functions or personal hygiene; with these details, she would use a famous celebrity as an example and say that she would ask these celebrities, "What are ya tryin' to do, make me sick?!"

    Eventually, Jane Curtin would interrupt. Curtin would then ask her what her comments had to do with the question. Roseannadanna's response was, "Well, Jane, it just goes to show you, it's always something--if it ain't one thing, it's another." Either the headers on your F355 are cracked or the valve guides are shot, and so on and so on.

    Sorry you set me off, but my opinion of this site, from a technical stand point, is pretty low. Seems more like a support group for recovering want to be Ferrariholics. I kind of feel that if you could not have afforded one of these cars new you shouldn't own one now. Maintenance cost don't go down with time. If you think $7k for a major is outrageous now, wait 5 years.

    End rant.
     
  15. drbob101

    drbob101 F1 Rookie
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    Our resident curmudgeon as spoken... :)
     
  16. PaulW_968

    PaulW_968 Karting

    Jan 12, 2014
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    Somebody needs to take one of their clips and dub in these words and post it on YouTube! I'm laughing just thinking about it.
     
  17. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Not mine to allow. They pay me for it. it's theirs.

    At least I think they paid me, I don't know I never keep track, I just deposit the checks whenever they show up.
     
  18. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Oy Vay have not herd that word since I been in Calafornee
     
  19. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran

    Aug 4, 2006
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    I just love these threads compalining about another typical 355 issue. Hey dudes, they are highly strung performance cars, not Hondas. You are going to have things come up from time to time. Interestingly, the more you drive your car, the less likely some of these are to occur. Hmm. So you can be your own preventitive maintainer by simply driving those things! Works for me. :)
     
  20. drbob101

    drbob101 F1 Rookie
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    I don't see anyone complaining about it at all Vince. More just an informational thread about the topic

    And from what I read in Brian's article it is "another 355 issue" at all. In fact this is the first time I even heard about it and it was a subject brought up in reference to 360s having more issues with it than 355s.
     
  21. GerryD

    GerryD Formula 3

    May 5, 2010
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    Its more of an issue with the 360 because the heat exchanger is not built the same for the 360 as it was for the 355. The early 360s I believe have the same exchanger as the 355 but later years it was built by a different company. The later ones (most 360s) don't have the reinforcement built onto each side where the connection is made. This causes them to crack with the engine vibrations and you can have major engine damage if it goes undetected long enough. The other problem is that they are no longer made and a used one will only cause you more problems down the road. These are going on more cars than you think. Fortunately for us Daytona auto up here in Toronto has had some manufactured strictly for them and they are heavy duty compared to the OEM one. They are capable of handling 400psi compared to the OEMs 300psi. If you call Daytona for one, just ask for Alex and he will ship one to you. BTW they are made of copper and not brass like the OEM. When my next major comes up, I will be updating mine as a precaution.
     

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