Seems like it comes down to what you want, ease and comfort in a very capable grand tourer or rawness and precision in a pure sportscar. Great info by ccferrari.
You really can't go wrong with a Porsche Carrera GT! [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKhwz18I878&list=UU21Kozr_K0yDM-VjoihG9Aw&feature=c4-overview]LOUD Straight Piped Porsche Carrera GT wakes up Beverly Hills!! - YouTube[/ame]
Great post from ccferrari. I'd add having driven both extensively that I consider the Porsche CGT amongst the very finest performance cars ever made. (although have owned neither). The skills and time needed to access the (devastating) performance mean that it doesn't give up it's secrets to you immediately. You bond with the car over time and get better and more and more comfortable with driving it which I presume, make it an incredibly satisfying ownership proposition. I also forgot to add that it's build quality was on another level to anything I'd seen until I sat in a Bugatti Veyron. Outstanding. There's also it's "status" as the last of the line. A time when the manufacturer was still brave enough to assume buyers had a certain level of skill and **respect** for high performance driving. Finally, I consider the CGT so much more visceral, aggressive than the 599GTO which, if I may be honest I didn't rate when I drove. I though the 599GTO was actually overpowered in that it lacked sufficient mechanical grip (particularly traction) given the enormous power and I KNEW, I could feel, the electronics and stability controls were masking this.... Indeed when I drove the GTO, any attempt, even in the dry, in a straight line to apply reasonable power in the lower gears was met with stumbling interference from the safety systems. Yes, it made a great noise and gearbox was sensational but to me it was an exercise in getting a race car experience from a GT using electronics.... .... whereas the CGT is the real thing - you can tell - fit slicks, new dampers, a roll cage and go racing with it. Olaf Manthey no less said the same thing. I'd go long the Porsche. So many are being destroyed, given what it is, I believe it to be a better long term investment proposition than the Ferrari too (should you care). My recommendation - CGT all day for me Sir.
I could not disagree more with the above, traction is not really an issue in the GTO even if one uses CT off on the track, the car has tremendous traction. As for the electronics, again I beg to differ on this, having experience a GTO really driven hard on the track in Race mode the electronics are brilliant, just allowing the car to slide but not excessively, foot flat in a corner and the car just sits, the tail moving out slightly.
CGTs are in the 350K Euros region. Not sure if non-silver cars command a premium. In any case, I think silver suits the CGT best (matter of taste of course). Low km GTOs can be found at 30/40K less.
I think this is called progress and technological advancement........ALL car manufacturers are 'guilty' of this, not just Ferrari. If a pure genuine experience is so important why accept ABS on the Carrera GT? The fact is that the technological advancements and controls that are available now were not at the time of the Carrera GT and is primarily why it doesn't have more of them. Look at the 918 Spyder, it's full of electronic gadgetry and represents the current state of automotive evolution. The Carrera GT is a fantastic car and I have have almost pulled the trigger on owning one of these on at least three seperate occasions, but it's 'day to day' driving impracticalities in town (LHD being one of them) has always held me back at the last minute. I still admire them and look twice every time I see one go by me. I just think that it is a bit of a pointless exercise to compare the GTO with the Carrera GT and berate the GTO because of its technological advancements. The fact that a car of that nature can move so fast is a testament to automotive advancement and should be celebrated and applauded.
With respect the CGT has hardly covered itself in glory as being a forgiving car, there are many famous and no so famous examples of this, so to say the GTO is all over the place is a bit rich when one looks at the "history" of the GTO and its handling characteristics. I respect your opinion but I agree to disagree. Driving the GTO is an involving experience and how one can find it not involving is quite surprising to me based on my own experiences.
My belief is that the CGT is unforgiving because it's a fundamentally a racer and requires SKILL. The GTO with everything switched on, has TO ME, an unacceptable digital layer of interference. So you switch it all off. It then becomes unforgiving because it's unsound - it was never designed to have all the electronics off. (as Ferrari themselves have admitted). We will respectfully agree to disagree. I believe it's quite clear that we value almost completely different things in an ultimate sports car. To NADS: You're completely right to say that most manufacturers have taken this line with technology - in the name of more speed, they're taking away involvement. And given that these are road cars, I wonder about the relevance of this strategy? That's why I'm struggling to even *want* a modern Ferrari at the moment after a lifetime of hankering after them and buying them. Each test drive leaves me cold. FYI: The 16M has gone. I really fancy CGT or a 993RS or even a lovely 512TR (I'd like an F50/F40 but they're currently beyond me). The impracticality of a CGT doesn't figure in my analysis. It's a racer. The GTO is still a GT. They're not apples vs apples. This is also correct. But the truth is I really couldn't care less about technological improvements or automotive advancement in the name of performance when it comes at the exclusion of driver input. The CGT was cutting edge but didn't replace the driver. That's why it's so special. The future Google Self-Driving Prius may travel safely at 300mph and lap Fiorano in 20 seconds, making a great sound but there's no way I'll applaud it thank you. Not when I want a sports car. Technology should be used to engage and excite the driver. Not replace it, nor mitigate for fundamentally unsound mechanical layouts. That's why, although the GTO and the CGT are totally different cars, when compared for being at similar price points, for me there is no contest. The Porsche is one of the greatest and the GTO although fun for a while is not in the same league. Amongst other things, I find it's GTO moniker completely disingenuous. What were Ferrari thinking? Anyway - all the best to you both. MB
Get a higher km GTO Carlo. The more kms you put on them, the better. Mine is approaching 20k kms and it feels much better compared to when I first got it
Hi M, In principle, if the previous owner treated the car with respect, I agree. As you know, having driven a GTB for 70K km in roughly 4 years I am surely not against the idea of driving these cars.
My comment on the OP's question is only on the styling and appearance of the cars. To me the CGT design is one of those times that a design is just right, given its origins. Its simplicity of form is consistent with the Bauhaus school of the early 20th century, but quite modern at the same time. Your eye takes it in all at once, and every feature of it integrates to a pleasing whole. Unfortunately the present day 918 has taken the idea to excesses and in my opinion it borders on vulgar. When you look at the 599GTO, it seems the least Ferrari-like of the 3 "GTOs" and frankly the least attractive. It seems more American muscle car than Italian flourish, with the exception of the rear view which is clean and traditional. The rest of the car presents itself as chunky and muscular, exuding power but not grace. So if it were only a matter of looks, I think the CGT wins hands down, this from an owner of three FCars.
I think the CGT looks great but so does the 599 GTO. Just very different cars. CGT: really is a race car made street legal. 599 GTO: street car made into a race car. Hard to really compare them. Just so different. Best to have both.
I do not agree that the Cgt is dangerous or a widow maker . It has the most fantastic chassis . The Carrera gt is that rare ( and now extinct ) form of Supercar that is a pure driving instrument . It will do only and exactly what you ask of it . The issue ( for some and it's redeeming feature for others ) is that there is no electronic overlord controlling your actions . If does only what your inputs ask it to and if your skills are lacking or your inputs incorrect the results will be appropriate . With enough respect for the car there is no reason for it to hurt you , rarely has there been a car that communicates it's behaviour so clearly , you just need to speak its language . For me it is the car I prize above all others . The elation one experiences , the indestructible build quality of this car place it in another class to everything else to me . The f50 is the closest car I can think of in this respect but the abuse I give my Cgt would frankly kill my f50 stone cold dead . It is a life affirming experience the Cgt , a car to keep for ever , to learn and grow with , a life time long experience to exult in. Ever 30 000 miles , I still am not better than this car . I still get butterflies in my stomach before driving it and sweaty palms and an increased hart rate afterwards . It's certainly no boulevard cruiser and it is more glorious because of it . It is the last of its kind , Cgt I salute you .
My pleasure you are very welcome . I get a little carried away regarding the Carrera gt . I truly love that car , I still creep down to the garage to talk to her even with all the other cars I am so lucky to have access to . I was lucky enough to have a dinner with michael hoelscher and talk for hours about his baby . Also a long chat with Walter rohrl , fantastic insight into that great car( apparently rohrl was not happy with the original choice of tyre , a situation now resolved by the advent of the new super sport ) . I think I have read every single book , article and web page regarding the Carrera gt . Someone very involved in these matters from a development /supplier point of view told me porsche wanted to find an enzo to look at and Ferrari heard about this . So they sent them one to look at apparently( think it was a prototype ) . In return porsche sent Ferrari a prototype Carrera gt and some data . The cars were returned with glowing reviews apparently and even higher mutual respect . I think that's a lovely story of pure enthusiasm I hope( and I am pretty sure ) that it is true .
This thread is such a pleasure to read. Real world experieces discussed by people who have driven and owned the cars. None of the armchair number slinging BS.
Enjoyed reading your two posts. 30k miles in CGT is some achievement and its great to know that the car is being used instead of being put away in a collection. I think there is merit in the sense that some early reviews of the CGT were perhaps not as favourable as some latter ones were and maybe its because today we can put the car in context of its time. It was compared to the SLR at the time, which is laughable today and in my mind it would be true to say the CGT is a car that's got better with age. In respect of the GTO, I too believe in that 10 years from now it will be a revered car, its unforgiving in its rawness and provides a driving challenge a 458 cannot match. Comparing these two car is like comparing apples and pineapples, perhaps the real solution is to own one of each. From that perspective I would think they would complement each other perfectly.
I had the same thought. You are absolutely right. I have neither of these cars and probably never will, but the thread is so good, I am following it just to learn.
