No more walking up stairs required. Greenpoint patents VVIP Boeing 747-8 elevator - Corporate Jet Investor
Greenpoint's specialness is that the elevator goes to the tarmac. The Saudi 747-300 was the first with the elevator. It went from the cargo hold to the main deck and the upper deck. That was done in the early 1980s. In the mid 1990s a company in So Cal looked at doing an elevator that would go to the tarmac for a 747-SP but the project was cancelled and that owner sold the SP and switched to a 767-300ER. In a couple of the photos I posted the elevator is visible. There were at least 3 747s done by The Dee Howard Company where it was installed. Jeff
It would be interesting but way too many rights on the photos (photographer, facility that did the work, sometimes the designer involved) and the aircraft owners to navigate. Some of the companies don't exist or have changed hands multiple times. Even if an aircraft has been sold there are contract provisions that for full public disclosure might still apply. Do remember that those who own some of the aircraft have very deep pockets for legal battles. Being right is a lot less relevant than being able to afford to fight the fight.
Agree that Greenpoint's system is special. Penetrating the pressure vessel is much more intricate and structurally intensive. The other elevators are, for all practical purposes, just variations on the cart lifts that have been commonplace in the 74 and other widebodies.
When De Howard did the original elevators it had to deal with the fact that there is a lot of structural movement in a 747 and more so when going through 3 decks. The Air Force 1 747s do not have an elevator but there is an airstair out of the cargo hold on the left side forward of the wing. The had to make modifications to the bottom side of the main deck floor beams so people could walk erect to the staircase to the main deck. That was considered a big deal. When I checked some years back Boeing would not do the airstair and floor beam mod again. Jeff
Yep, figured that. When I heard "Trump spent (IIRC) $100m to refurbish" I knew it was BS. You don't buy an aircraft that can be had (used airliner) for $8-$15m, then spend $100m on it. You buy a new BBJ and then spend money... Now, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Paul Allen spent $100m for the aircraft and the refurbishment at the time. I saw it advertised for sale (no price) for a while, assumed (incorrectly) that it was around $25-40m because of the low usage and because it's a 757.
The first 757 to VIP conversion was PrivatAir/Petrolair/Latsis family done at Page Orlando. It was an earlier build airframe that, to their unfortunate discovery, was incapable of being upgraded to the 258,000 lb max weight. Originally it had a bunch of coach airline seats in the back because Heathrow had been talking about a restriction that an aircraft had to have 60 or more pax seats to be allowed to use the airport. After a few years then there became a series of 757s converted to VIP. Freeport McMoRan was probably the next one and it was done at Associated. This likely was the start of a series of ones done for individuals and governments by Associated. Paul Allen, Sir James Goldsmith, Mexico, Argentina, Saudi Arabia and one of the "stan" countries. Part of this was that the line to order new from Being was long but Ansett was willing to make outright sales from their "for lease" fleet of new aircraft. Based upon general recollections from the early 1990s figure that Paul Allen probably paid Ansett in the $40s. The VIP conversion at Associated was very likely under $10 mil and could even have been more like $7. Trump's numbers are so completely bogus when $100mil is thrown around. He paid $10 mil for the aircraft. The refurb might have been $5 mil but easily could have been less. The entertainment package should have been $1 mil but Gregg probably got sucked into the "Trump story" of big discount for the publicity & honor of getting to work with the "Great Donald". Even if the aircraft had a major maintenance package and shop visit for each engine under $6 mil, with change back, should cover all that. IF they did some avionics upgrades with live TV and new satellite telephone system maybe another $1.5. If anyone wants to understand BBJs here are some numbers: Original 10 orders for BBJ1 green airframe: $30.5 mil Subsequent orders were $34.5 All those aircraft then paid to get the winglets and thrust upgrades. $1.5 mil but Borge would discount. Early outfitting contracts (1997 through 2000 signings) were $8 to about $12 mil. Some of the very elaborate interiors were seeing quotes around $20 mil. Fast forward to today and the green airframe is significantly higher. More like $60 and the outfitting starts at $15. In comparison the ask for a new completed Global 6000 is low $60s and G-650s are talked of in terms of $65 or so. Jeff
Careful, His Royal Trumpness might sue you for 6 bazillion if he reads this! If there's one guy that needs to be put out of his misery... Using your legs is for fools and peasants apparently . .
Two problems do exist in entering these large aircraft. One is that they sit so high off the ground that only external stair will get up to the doors. Sometimes there are not enough stairs if multiple aircraft are around or the stairs have to be brought from somewhere. The second problem is about moving people in wheelchairs. Some of the folks that use these aircraft are old and not in particularly good health. Note that the sizing of the elevator compartment addresses being capable of holding a wheelchair plus attendant. These aircraft do not usually use jetways as they are over n the VIP side of an airport. Attached is a photo of the VIP (but not Royal) area of Jeddah airport. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Some more VIP interiors. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
More. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
BBJ1, 2 & 3 have as standard the Boeing airline optional underfloor airstair at the L1 door. There are aftermarket airstairs available for 757, 767 and 777. They are not underfloor but instead take up space on the main deck. Since they are main deck it means that they can not be deployed from the ground by the crew. For them to work the entry door has to be opened and the assembly tracked into position then extended. Jeff
Yes. Also Tron and others. Syd graduated in automotive design from Art Center in LA. Went to Ford in Detroit. Did not stay particularly long. Big break was being used by US Steel to do an annual book Innovations (or something like that). Each book as a showcase of Syd's spectacular rendering ability of vehicles in futuristic settings. Syd did the design work for Phillips for a number of years as a consultant. He did some rendering for Giugaro too. Along the way Syd moved to So Cal and got in with the movie crowd. Paid very well for visual concepts. Was still doing design work for an assortment of companies throughout. NO ONE can render and stage a scene like Syd. He was rendering with guache. Se the attached and realize he figured out how to get 4 walls into the scene and make it look believable. Mind boggling that he could do that. Make a bunch of the VIP interior designers try to become little Syds. Jeff Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Mike was in my graduating class at ACCD we knew he'd do well...............just didn't realize how well
Jeff, two longshots here....but do you happen to have photos of: 1. Google 767? I'm curious how they decorated it... 2. UAE 747SP that got glass cockpit/2-pilot conversion (done by Lufthansa Technik I believe)? As for the book, you could do a smaller run that was print to order and with low volume would be so under the radar to not matter. Hell, I'd even take the chance if I had the photos and stories to go with them (wink wink). Finally, ever involved with any of the VIP BAe 146 conversions? For my own curiosity sake...
Jeff, great inputs to this thread. Quick question regarding stairs: Do the 747s of AF1 and E-4 duties have unique stairs of any kind, or are they standard Boeing kit? I have seen the right side stairs on the E-4 that go into the cargo hold and wondered if they were a special order item (so to speak).
Air Force one has stairs on the left side forward of the wing for entry into the cargo hold. There is a staircase from the hold to the main deck. This was a Boeing Wichita creation. Boeing Wichita did the contract for the conversion of the two Air Force 1 aircraft. Lots of sub contractors to Wichita. Massively late and a big financial loss for Boeing. I am not aware of what, if anything, the E-4s have for onboard stairs. For most of their time they were kept far away from public view and at Andrews kept behind the tree line. The Air Force 1 stair out the left side (which provides the ability of a president to be seen entering the aircraft with the correct "presidential imagery", to the best of my knowledge, was the first and only time that such an installation was made. The Dee Howard installations has a deploying stair and electric chair ramp from the forward cargo hold using the regular cargo door. It is possible that the E-4s have a main deck deploying stair. In its day it could have been made by PATS or Winters Engineering. Jeff
Wiki has a couple pics of the stairs for the E-4s. They're on the Starboard side from the cargo hold, in front of the R wing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_E-4
