Is this really a Ferrari 412MI and not a 412S?

#0744 = 412 MI (Monza Indianapolis).

 

^^This^^

Chris Cox driving?

 

Initially had a 4 cam 3 litre engine and was a 312 S (or was it a 315 S?).

 

I remember seeing this car when Bill Bauce (sp?) either owned it or was it's caretaker. Was it the most powerful sports-car engine Ferrari developed in the '50s? Six carbs, four cam, twin-plug heads...

Had to be the beastiest among beasts!

 

Yes, the engine it ended up with had a very interesting history. See here: Forza :: The Beast : Ferrari built the lone 412 MI?to defeat the Scarabs on U.S. racetracks. The hot-rod special failed in its appointed task, but 50 years later, it?s back on track and taking no prisoners.

 

Actually, 0744 is also referred to as a 412S. It started life as a 312S (3 litre 4 cam engine) but got the engine (tipo 141 with 4 cams and 4023cc) from the 412 Monza Indianapolis single seater, the engine of which had came from the remains of De Portago's 335S (0646) so this is why it's called 412 MI also imo????

 

There you go. It's a 412S. Ferrari say that 0744 is erroneously called a 412MI. See here: http://www.ferrari.com/english/gt_sport%20cars/classiche/all_models/Pages/412_S.aspx

Look at the beautiful engine and carbs on this "Beast."
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Probably the only Ferrari with V. Jano engine...

john

 

The 290S, 315S and 335S along with the single seater 412MI referred to above also used the Jano engines with tipos 130, 136, 140 and 141. I believe the Prototype P2 and P3s used Jano and Massimino's principles in their 4 cam cylinder head designs with tipos 216, 216B and 241???

 

An absolutely amazing car that I was given the opertunity to restore and spend many miles behind the wheel. "Officially" the car's factory paperwork refer to it as a 412S. However, almost EVERYBODY has always called it the 412 MI from day one. Phil definitely always called it the 412 MI. Probably because the single-seater was named the 412 MI, the nonemclature just followed the engine to the sports car chassis.

John: I agree that the valve gear is of Jano philosophy, however, the actual engine designer was Massimino. Phil always called these engines the "Massimino engines", and he was there at the time. These cars were always his favorite Ferraris and once you have driven one it is easy to understand why.

 

These 4 cam engines seemed to be a technical advancement over the 2 cam Columbos but became a quick dead end. What happened? Wouldn't it have made sense to adapt the 4 cam design to the 3 liter Columbo? Was there a power curve characteristic that made it a problem for broader application?

0744 was created in 1958 from the parts bin. 250TRs continued to be the factory racers through 1961. Even in 1962 0808 was based upon a 400SA engine with 2 cams.

Jeff

 

Jeff: These were top-end power engines. The 412 MI just explodes with power above 6,000 rpm. It is smooth below that, but not a lot of power. The 3 liter (312S) version was much worse, with power to 9,000, but little bottom end power. This made it hard to drive and race. Also, they are mechanically very complex. The 250 TR motor made better power over a wider range, was comparatively simple to maintain and was much cheaper to build.

 

I was fortunate enough to ride in this car a few years ago. On the open road. It was an experience that I will never forget. Beautiful car.

 

This is a matter of "splitting hairs". There are factory documents refering to the car as the 412S. Techincally, this is correct. It was a Four Liter, Twelve Cylinder Sports (412S) car. The single seater for the Race of Two Worlds at Monza was called in factory documents a 412 MI (Four liter, Twelve Cylinder Monza/Indianapolis). However, from the VERY BEGINNING, Phil Hill, Von Neumann and all the others referred to the Sports Car as the 412MI. It just made sense, as everybody knew where the engine came from.

It was only many years later that I was able to verify the engine originally was installed in the De Portago 335 Sport (0646). The factory destroyed the Build Sheets for this car in the late 1950's (probably due to the legal proceedings in Italy). However, traces of the original stamping are still visible in the engine block.

Another easy eay to link this engine with the Portago crash car is the carburetors. All the other 1957 4 Cam Sports Cars were built with Solex carbs, only 0646 has Webers with the different manifolding, etc. Photos of the Portago crash clearly show the Weber carbs. 0764 was built in 1958 with Webers, but this happened a year later.

More trivia, the 412MI/412S engine was "hopped-up" by the factory for the Monza race by raising the compression ratio, changing the camshafts to a set ground to the same profile as the four cylinder cars (Mondial, Monza, etc. This grind is quite radical for the era.) and boring the Weber 42 DCN carbs to 44mm and stamping the ID plates 44 DCN. All these changes made the engine a "top end monster" and enabled Musso to put the car on the pole at 174 mph average lap.

After Monza, and in preparation for installation in the sports car chassis, the carbs were sleeved down to 42mm and the ID plates were overstamped 42 DCN. This was done to try to broaden the torque curve to pull the heavier two seat bodywork.

 

Definitely radical! The camshaft contours in the type 111 motors (500 Mondial) were identical (same Ferrari part numbers) to the ones used by the type 119 motors in the 750 Monzas. Their timing was quite radical with open duration for intake of 310° and exhaust of 306° and an exhaust/intake overlap period of 98°. All of the type 111 cams had 11mm lift while some of the type 119 cams had 13mm lift. It is clear that the design was for power in the higher rev ranges. I had no idea that the 412 motor had the same cam profiles.

This pic is taken (S. II 500 Mondial) straight thru the Webers, the intake manifold, the combustion chamber and out the exhaust port - the two points of light you can see is the daylight at the exhaust port, split by the valve stems - talk about duration . . . .
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Great post!

Always my favorite of the sports racers, Phil Hill was partial to the 315/335S, himself.