Tires and age

I bought a set of hi performance tires that I knew well on-sale because, in my experience, I thought they were the best track tire. The car handled evil on the track. I just plain and simple didn't recognize the car. That's how I learned about tire age, and why they were on-sale (They were 4 years old). Tire store stone-walled cust service, but the manufacturer stepped up and sent me fresh rubber, then the store made good on mount & balance. Next track day, I had my sweet handling car back!!

That aging tire stuff is very real.

 

UV is very hard on tires. The motorcoach and RV people know this. https://www.google.com/search?biw=1259&bih=628&tbm=isch&q=rv+tire+covers&revid=1203847643

 

A climate control garage and/or a tire warmer might prolong tire life.

 

I would get 10 track days on a set of Bfridgestone S03s (and 10K total miles)

 

If your tires are lasting too long take some driving lessons from this guy.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=878-LYQEcPs]GoPro: Ken Block's Gymkhana 6 GoPro Edition - YouTube[/ame]

 

The rubber pliability has a lot to do with your mechanical grip to the road surface. Regarding tire aging, pliability is the first thing to go. I've driven a large sample of these cars on everything from brand new tires to tires made before DOT serial numbers had the date code at the end. If you think 5+ year old tires are OK, try a panic stop before and after changing them. As others have said, it's night and day.

 

Aedo:
I know a little bit about rubber and for what it's worth here's my take on it.
Oxidation is what causes the rubber to crack. This can be accelerated by ozone in the air. So, yes, if you could store the tires in an inert atmosphere like nitrogen or argon that would arrest the oxidation process and they'd probably last longer.
From a practical perspective, I'm not sure how you'd do that. You'd like have to build an airtight container, put the tires in it and draw a good vacuum on it and then fill the container with pure nitrogen or argon. The container would have to be built in such a manner that there would be little air that could get in and little inert gas that could leak out.
he tires should be stored in the dark. Also, that brownish/whitish haze on the tires is a combination of wax and antioxidants and antiozonants that are put into the rubber to protect it. The wax is soluble in the rubber while it is warm during the manufacturing of the tire. After the tire cools to room temperature, the wax becomes less soluble and gradually migrates to the surface taking some antiozonant and antioxidants with it. In the rubber industry, this layer of wax is called a wax bloom. This wax bloom is very resistant to ozone and the antioxidants and antioxidants also protect the tire from oxidation. So, I'd recommend that you not remove this film when you store the tires even if they are stored in an inert atmosphere. This will help protect them as well.

 

They were > 5 years old, and it was on the street. Road was damp.

 

And the #1 reason to change your tires every 5 years. . . there are better tires on the market, unless you have a car with smaller rims - today that's 15 inch.

I need some new rubber (15 inch) for my 69 TVR Vixen, but try finding extreme/ultra high performance tire choices. I've had my car 30 years and could always count on getting better rubber when putting new tires on the car. It stinks having rims which were considered huge in their day and now are a distant memory of many mfgs.

 

Yes, but older Michelins are notorious, especially the X and higher performance versions of that tire (see the comment from the 308 guy, which is a car model that often runs on XWX tires).
That said, I also had a set of Dunlops on a BMW CS I have that still gripped very well and never had an issue with. However when my tire guy said he could not determine the date on them, I did replace them in the end.

I would probably not replace an 8 year old tire on a summer drive car that I use only a few thousand miles a year and am unlikely to go faster than 120kph with, but I would certainly replace one on a hi performance car before at that time.

I think there is not really a good rule apart from what your use is on a car and what risk you can handle (possibly quite literally in the case of a blowout).
I have had 3 year old Pirelli wintertires that were without any grip at that age, interestingly enough especially in the dry. Renewing those was the biggest improvement in tires I have ever had, while renewing those 15+ years old Dunlops with new ones did not make the slightest difference in handling - it may have decreased the chance of a blowout, but even that is difficult to say as that risk is never zero.

 

They can be found, though they will frequently have to be ordered or at least trucked across town, as most places don't stock them in great numbers. Some reasonable choices found with a quick search:

• Avon ZZR
• Dunlop Direzza ZII
• Kumho Ecsta XS - don't seem to have the V700/V70A any longer
• Toyo R888 or RA1
• Yokohama A048

...to name a few. I'm sure there are others. I have run A048 and currently have R888, and both offer great dry-weather traction. Age should not be an issue with this type of tire, as tread life is always the trade-off for high grip. But this type of tire will need to avoid exposure to below freezing temperatures at all times, according to most manufacturers. Something to think about in Brooklyn!

Best of luck.

 

Ok my flame suit is on. 5 years and out no matter what. However each year after the fitrst season I soak the tires. It improves or adds what has been lost to a certain extent. They are stickier and more pliant. A 5 your old soaked tire is NOT better than fresh. However I use track claw during my spring time ritual every year. It brings them back a bit. After 5 throw them out! GTS Bruce

 

contaminated air from an unmaintained compressor can accelerate deterioration to moisture inside of a tire, leading to damage from the inside, ( the water can be heated to beyond the boiling point ) best to use air from a compressor with filters to keep moisture at minimum levels... racers use nitrogen, as do high end shops, to fill tires with uncontaminated air...
clean air will not extend the life of a tire, but will keep it from early or unexpected failure from the inside

 

What about filling with nitrogen, does that reduce deterioration at all (or is all the damage from exposure of the outside of the tire)?

Little known fact: Costco fills tires with nitrogen for free when they install tires.

 

Vince, here's the story of my old tire scare

A little over a year ago now I bought a new-to-me 944. One of the things I looked at when I was checking out the car was the tires. I thought something looked funny, but the tire date code ended in 7 and the owner said 'yeah, the tires are pretty new', so I put my qualms behind me and drove the car home. I knew it was about time for tires, but I figured the 5/6 year-old line wasn't cause for urgent concern while I drove and fettled with the car in its first few days/weeks.

Fast forward to month #2 of ownership. I'm coming off cloverleaf on-ramp to the highway, merging to highway speed and traffic. It's night and it's raining. A car ahead of me cuts over and I gently tap the brakes.

The next thing I know, I'm trying to control a massive fishtail. I catch the first two swings of the pendulum and, in an effort to bleed off a little more speed (since there were cars nearby), I lift off.

They call it snap oversteer for a reason.

Quicker than you can say "WTF?!" the car pirouettes. I had just enough time to look out the window at the other cars and think: "well, I just wrecked this one" as the car slid across a lane of traffic, hit the curb, popped over it, and came to a rest the grass.

Turns out the funny feeling I had that day was right. 3-digit codes stopped being used in the 1990s...

The tires were 15 years old.


Newer definitely is better.

 

as I mentioned earlier nitrogen will not extend the life of a tire, it will, keep it from an unexpected or early failure from interior deterioration

using nitrogen ( especially in race tires ) is about controlling the tire expansion and other characteristics as the tire heats... nitrogen is inert and contaminate free allowing for consistent expected results in response from the tire

 

The air in the atmosphere is 79% Nitrogen

 

The tires are the only things that keep the car stuck to the road and stop it. The brakes only stop the wheels from spinning, it is the tires that stop the car. New sticky tires are cheap insurance that you are not going to have an accident.

Unless you have a car collection with hundreds of cars, there is no reason that you shouldn't have new tires on your car every 3-5 years. I test drive every one of our customer's cars and the difference between new tires and old is huge, not just in traction, but handling and compliance over bumps. Tires are part of your suspension as well, and as they get harder, the ride will suffer.

It is amazing to me that people will buy all sorts of carbon fiber parts and other stuff to tart up their car and then have 10-15 year old mismatched tires on the car. I take it on a road test, and it handles like crap, to the point of being scary at speed.

 

This is an urban myth. Yes, tires are negatively impacted by oxygen, but to a very very small degree, especially with modern tire compounds. Replacing the interior air with something free of oxygen might make a small difference if you keep tires for 100 years, but both oxygen and ozone will attack the exterior during that time and that will be a bigger concern.

Bottom line: For the typical useful life of a Ferrari tire, air with oxygen won't make any real difference and certainly not be cause for any "early failure". Think about it. Wouldn't the feds be all over this if ordinary air could possible cause any safety issue, no matter how tiny? Of course they would. In the United States and Europe at least there would be government certified nitrogen outlets and a huge army of bureaucrats monitoring the price, quality, and availability of the gas along with kick-backs, bribes, and fraud.

The real reason racers use nitrogen is because it's easiest way to get dry gas. It's easy to buy a bottle of dry nitrogen. It's not flammable or otherwise dangerous (other than the pressure) and it's cheap. Why use a dry gas? Primarily because moisture (humidity) will make tire pressure, and therefore tire performance, change to a greater degree than a dry gas. Dry gas makes tire pressure increases associated with higher temperatures more predictable.

It is true that a moist gas will also promote corrosion to some degree and oxygen will escape slightly faster from a tire than will the larger nitrogen molecule. These factors are highly touted by nitrogen advocates, especially those making money by selling nitrogen or nitrogen equipment.

But in truth, these factors are very small and important only to a small number of car enthusiasts like antique collectors, people who NEVER check their tire pressure, and folks like that.

For most of us, it's all about the gas being dry and even that is not real important for street use especially if you check your tire pressure from time to time.

Use nitrogen if you like. It is truly better than ordinary air. But don't think that it's anything even remotely close to being very important to normal Ferrari drivers, especially from a safety standpoint.

 

Automatically discarding a tire after X years regardless of it's actual condition is foolish if you ask me.
Of course rubber ages but it depends on conditions. To declare them all dead at age 6 (or whatever) sells tires, period.
I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut that under inflation, PREVIOUS under-inflation, improper repairs or other damage is responsible for more "old" tire failures than simple age.
Rock hard compounds are another thing and pretty easy to determine.

Nitrogen? For road cars is more hoo-ha. The atmosphere is already 78(?)% and few if any sellers will bother to displace the existing atmosphere in a tire before filling from their tanks. I'll bet another dollar that you'll not get more than 90% out of tires filled with this magic gas at your friendly tire store.

 

Chris,
Thanks for sharing your story. Reminded me of when I bought my 77 Vette, the PO also claimed the tires were new and they did indeed have plenty of tread, but the first time I took a curve it spun out. Not as drastic as yours, but still.

Brian,
You are absolutely right, I just read that as well: the brakes don't make the car stop and the engine does not make it accelerate: it is those 4 little contact patches.

 

My observation is that tyres can last quite a long time without visual degradation if they are kept out of direct sunlight - I suspect that some of the tyre shine products also act as a barrier to reduce the effect of ozone.
I'm not aware of any legal requirement to remove tyres from service due to age in Australia, but I've seen manufacturers recommendations to replace tyres if they are 10 years old, and in the event of an accident, going longer than that may give an insurer grounds to deny a claim.

M