David Piper restores the Talacrest P4

They may have found it in the shop that they commissioned to build it.


This saga becomes more and more incredible.

 

There is some irony in that the car is now searching for the right body.

 

Absolutely ... an easy solution is surely smacking them in their face

Pete

 

Good post, its like when you build a great engine, you want everyone to know but if you build an 80% engine because the customer has budget constraints, you would prefer your name wasn't on it...

Just talking about engines here...

 

Hey guys it's the power of Ferrari Chat! This forum has really sparked something and I guess this forum keeps the Ferrari world straight.

I can imagine, without this forum and everyone's knowledge combined, a lot of people would've been led to believe that this car is something that it is not.

I think I'm sick of hearing about this car now, I wouldn't pay 500k for it

Good job to all!

 

0858's recommissioning is the subject of an Auto Italia magazine article. Out on the 5th.

http://www.auto-italia.co.uk/nextissue.asp
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It's a pity we have returned to discussing #0858 as the discussion about #0900 was just getting interesting

Pete

 

Okey dokey.

....which doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

You're obviously very knowledgeable, however 0900 was never raced in period as far as I know??? I would disagree with you about it not being a P4. I'm not aware of anything evolving on the car or the rear fenders being flared????

 

In 2000 I asked David if there was anything in writing from Enzo regarding 0900, the P4 (not P3 or P 3/4) blueprints David had and showed me and referred in writing to me, permission from Enzo to build "continuation" chassis or chassis' or any of the factory spares he now owned. He told me there wasn't. Perhaps he was lying.
David did clearly state in writing that the original Ferrari engine, gearbox, various body and suspension pieces that he sold me were acquired from Enzo Ferrari in 1974. (0846 pdf.)

 

So David said there's nothing in writing from Enzo about permission from him to make the continuation P4 chassis or allocation of the 0900 number AND nothing in writing from Enzo about the P4 factory blueprints he has??? If so then we must conclude that nothing in writing exists.

 

That's what I remember David telling me but there's no question these bits and bobs were acquired from Enzo by David including a set of P4 (not P3 or P 34/) chassis drawings.

 

I believe that Jim can chime in on the differences between 0900 and the previous cars and it has been mentioned in a couple of places, but if you look at the shot you posted back in post 2053 you can see the rear fenders are flared a considerable amount in that picture. Look carefully at the area aft of the rear wheel opening with the rear bodywork up and it is really obvious. Jim has looked it over and mentioned that the interior was considerably different from a P4. The rear fenders are just pretty easy to see.

I don't know when 0900 was actually completed. I looked for a bit on the web, but I was under the impression that it was raced by Piper-Attwood in the 1968 Kyalami 9 Hours, but from what I found the car they drove there was actually 0854 with flared rear fenders and wider rear tires so I'm at a loss as to when it was actually built and first raced. Given Piper raced 0854 that way back in 1968, it's pretty easy to think that was how he would build 0900 when he put it together.

We are probably getting off topic here, and perhaps someone who knows for sure can chime in on when 0900 was actually put together and was first raced.
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So it's ok for there to be no question the engine, gearbox and body panels you bought from DP were given to DP by EF in 1974 but not ok for there to be no question that EF asked Cavaliere Gioberti (spelling) if there was enough correct tubing to make a P4 chassis, for EF to have authorised the "continuation" P4 chassis for DP, for EF to have said that DP better have chassis number 0900 or for Mike Parkes to have overseen the making of the chassis whilst he worked at the factory???? If DP was lying verbally about the above, recorded on video, then isn't he also capable of lying in writing, as in his document to you regarding the parts sold to you?

 

Clearly you've mixed up 0854 with 0900, as I thought. The pic in post 2953 is from the early '80s where Didier Pironi drove or raced the car, and if the rear fenders are different there, DP may have had spare bodywork made up to save the original 0860 body he has for the car?

 

The engine, gearbox and some of the body panels (not all I believe) that Jim has have chassis numbers and or Le Mans stampings ... does not matter what DP said.

I very much doubt EF would give anything away ... unless at a cost
Pete

 

Oh, it matters a great deal what DP said to Jim in the case of the parts he bought. You missed the point I was trying to make which is that it's ok by Jim for DP to not only authenticate the parts he sold to him but also add the personal Enzo Ferrari factor, but not for DP to add the EF factor to P4 0900 in the same way.

 

I really can't fathom the silly connection you're making. I've clearly stated exactly what David told me in 2000 and have published exactly what he attested to in writing in 2000.

Are you seriously suggesting that David committed criminal fraud by attesting to in writing something that wasn't true in 2000?

What does what he said in a recent video about his replica P4 have anything to do what so ever with what I posted I remember him telling me in 2000 and he confirmed under the penalty of law in writing to be true in 2000? Nothing I said has any bearing what so ever on the video you reference. I clearly posted that David did have a set of P4 (not P3 or P 3/4) chassis drawings and he told me Enzo had included them with the other P parts he sold David in 1974 long after the Ferrari Factory had stopped racing P4's.

 

There you go again.

David has claimed for a long time that Enzo gave him permission to build a replica/continuation P4. Where have I EVER stated that I don't believe that to be true?

 

Absolutely not.

 

By the tone of your posts, your relentless references to David Piper's P4 as a replica, pure replica even and insinuations regarding his authority to use chassis number 0900. As far as I am concerned if Enzo Ferrari sanctioned the making of a "continuation P4 chassis" for DP by the original makers of the 3 earlier P4 chassis frames then it's not a replica at all, but a genuine Ferrari P4 chassis utilising a genuine Ferrari P4 engine bored out by 208cc, P4 Lucas Fuel Injection, P4 603R gearbox, P4 suspension, P4 brakes, genuine period P4 0860 body, P4 wheels etc making it a totally genuine Ferrari P4.

 

Oh no now we have delved back into the definition of a replica ...
Pete
ps: IMO David's P4 is a replica or continuation (note I think the Aston Martin Zagatos are replicas too) even if Enzo did sanction it ... but that is just my opinion which means nothing. It is of course full of real parts which makes it the very best replica, especially as no genuine Ferrari was ruined to get those parts.

 

...and I'm sure having that opinion of 0900 you would pay in the same ballpark for it as you would Stroll's if both were for sale.

 

It means nothing of the sort and nowhere have I said that it's worth the same. P4 chassis #0900 doesn't have the in period race history of 0856 or indeed 0858 and 0860 that contributed to the '67 Championship. It is nevertheless a genuine Ferrari P4, imo.

 

This may not be the rear bodywork of 0860 that DP has for P4 0900. There is no central vent running down the rear clam plus it looks like P4 Berlinetta not Spyder bodywork??? If so it's proof he used different bodywork on the car.
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