72 Dino GT Chairs & Flares at Gooding Amelia

"Not just Dinos, but the huge run up in collector car prices in general. I may well be wrong, but the last 3-4 years have many signs of a classic bubble market. And sure, there will be a be a climb back up after the pop. Everything is cyclical, even awesome little cars like the Dino."

It is true the market in general has climbed and will likely fall again.

But there are more recent examples of bubbles in a particular marque-- witness the dip Big Healeys took and to a lesser extent E-types:

Price Guide Report

Price Guide Report

The question is whether the Dino will be so overbought that it declines with respect to the rest of the market. Personally I doubt it. I had an 1966 E-type roadster and it was beautiful but not that much fun to drive. The Dino is beautiful, fun to drive, and much rarer.

 

I think when hedge funds are buying Dinos in masses, it's a good indication of a bubble.

 

Good point. So it seems that the C&F 246GT that traded recently, the C&F 246GTS at Amelia, and the 206GT also at Amelia, all sold to the same buyer. What's more, he is apparently looking to buy more. It smells of hoarding and hoarding smells of a bubble. It's possible, of course, that the buyer is simply obsessed with Dinos. Dinos, however, have been around for a while and most of those that are obsessed have been so for years. The obsessive types (like Matthias) didn't need the run up in prices to start buying multiple cars...

 

I wouldnt read too much into that fact ..... quite a few wealthy individuals like to have a "full set" of anything ..... i believe there are several examples of GTO collections, and i suspect a good number of the 499 La Ferrari, will have gone to such individuals.
The Russian and Chinese markets are starting to come on line in force now, representing a huge number of millionaires and billionaires that are looking for alternative investments ..... this will be unfortunate for the genuine enthusiast , but i think its an inevitable direction for the next 3-5 years.
Anyone prepared to bet against me that we will see a $1m Dino within the next 5 years??
I certainly think its more likely than a scenario that would allow one of us to pick up a $250k 'driver' in the same time frame!

 

Great to hear!

 

I am not saying that values aren't going to rise, but I would suggest that values will rise from the growth and desire that resides in more traditional markets to diversify investment strategies, and to hold appreciating assets that can be enjoyed, not just for value, but for beauty, and usable uniqueness.

The theory that the Russian and Chinese markets have huge numbers of million- and billion-aires that are just lurking around the corner and looking to invade the vintage and classic car market has been floated for 10 years or more, but, with the exception of an outlier or two in Hong Kong, I see practically no evidence of it whatsoever. It certainly hasn't had any sort of significant presence in the U.S. market, and from what I can tell, hasn't had an effect in England, Germany, France, or Italy - at least in the market for collectable vintage or classic cars.

When those Russian and Chinese nouveau riche buyers come to town, they're not looking for 275GTBs, Dinos, 330GTCs, Jaguar E-types, Pontiac GTOs, 1963 Split Window Corvette Stingrays, or what have you. Those cars have no historical legacy that interests them. They are buying pretty much only the latest and "greatest" current cars. They want the BLING, they want their suits, shirts, and handbags to display the DESIGNER LABELS (which they often will not remove even if the designer intended such labels to be removed). They want all of us to notice that they have ARRIVED!

"Old cars? Eww - not for me, not yet, probably not ever."

 

I go to many of the high end auctions and one thing is always a constant- the amount of attention afforded to Dinos, whether coupes or GTS's. At the RM auction Saturday, the silver GTS was given a prime display area inside the auction room and drew as many spectators as any of the other cars. I think you may see a further separation of pricing, as the rarer of the various offerings begin to separate themselves based on scarcity. For example, 206's, Chairs and Flares, L series etc. Much like with early 911's, you can see the differences between S's and base cars as fewer were built and even less have survived. They sell for multiples over the "regular" cars. The cars that sold Saturday at higher prices were unique compared to the more abundant GTS's that brought more realistic prices. Lets face it, if you want a 206 and there's only 1 for sale, what would you be willing to pay for it?

 

Dinos are finally being valued for how truly special they are, not only among other classic cars but among Ferraris. What is unique is that all 246's all have basically the same motor at the same spec unlike Porsche 911's. 206's are very special. I actually prefer the proportions of the 246 with the extra length behind the front door. Makes a 246 look more "cab-forward" and dramatic like a 250LM. Some people like the flairs. I wouldn't pay a premium. I prefer the standard flair but with the wider Campy wheels. I would however, pay a premium for a special original color combo. Out of all the Dinos, I think the 246GT will be the breakout. I think it is the most beautiful, most pure and most emotional. It has it all. As much as I love Porsches and 911's, Dinos are much more special!

Freeman

 

+1

When building a Dino collection, you are well advised to buy the artistically best and rarest models. Look at what Matthias has said about collectability amongst the various types of Dinos, particularly in Europe. I think the education afforded in his compendium has influenced collectors/investors and now we're starting to see the effects.
Look at the car he is standing next to in the introduction.

The car under discussion was 1 owner and original condition, did anyone inspect it? Does it need work? Only one photo on the gooding site, very little info. Would be great if someone could post some more photos. Interesting that the discussion here has focused on the price and not the condition of the car.
I watched the auction and appears 2 bidders slogged it out over the high estimate which probably doesn't mean much for the average Dino.

 

Freeman, We are in total agreement! While purists may express a preference for the 206, its shortened greenhouse (with exaggerated dome effect ), shortened area behind the doors, shorter rear overhang and narrower track remind me of pre-'69 short-wheelbase 911s. I think that the 246 is the natural progression of the Dino design. Had there been a longer gestation period, the 206 might have debuted with the revised 246 body. I, too, prefer the standard flares, with the Campagnolo wheels (one of my Dinos is so equipped). It's quite possible that Dino prices may eventually drop significantly, but I think it's obvious that, at the end of it all, they will have hit a new plateau. Who knows where it will go from there! Fred

 

Afternoon everyone...

Been gone for a while, busy with family and stuff. Interesting reading, this Dino value stuff. Bubble?

I interpret the market a bit more analytically. Smart money, and here I define anyone who can afford a Dino as smart money, is not spending $300k or $400k to purchase a car. They are merely shifting assets from one investment to another. Their net worth has not changed, merely a different line on the asset sheet. And with the stock market testing all-time highs, the "wealth affect" provides liquid assets to shift from. Fixed income (bonds) will earn you nothing.

So, if I invest $350k on a Dino, what can I lose? Sure, the market can correct, and maybe if I am in a hurry to recoup my investment I will lose 10% or 20%, but not the entire investment. On the other hand, the ROI could be 30% to 40%, so I might be willing to take the risk. And what monetary value do you assign to the pride of ownership, the ride, and the joy of owning the car.

If one acquires quality from the start, the value will always be there. Would you invest $30 on a gold Rolex, or $100k on a complicated Patek? The Rolex will lose its value when you place it on your wrist for the first time. Your grandkids will sell the Patek for 5 times the purchase price. Dinos are Pateks. The market will go up and down over the short term, but the long-term trend is in one direction only.

So, the take home lesson is passion. If you love the car, transfer the assets to acquire one. But not as a short-term investment. You have to be in it for the long haul. Don't ask what I paid for my two Dinos that I purchased in 1979 and 1981.

Trees don't grow to the sky, but redwoods, the really pretty ones, they sure are tall.

Jim S.

 

Now on BAT with clever epoxy repair of coolings
"Fill defects in water jacket with epoxy...."

I would like to find such the shop that does this rather than replace the failed one so to save the moneys
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1973-ferrari-dino-246-gt-3/

Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Is this an original C&F car?

Sales Guff :- Chassis no 04970 Nov 72

Dino Comp:- Chassis 04970 Mar 73 - 1st C&F car was 05454

Pity as i was hoping to get some idea what a chairs and flares car is worth.

 

I was there. The Dinos were neat cars.

 

Superb question.
The Massini report states "Chairs and Flares" but were these not two seperate lines and never as the package?
very odd


Image Unavailable, Please Login