2819gt sold to the UK?
All right, for you fans of Mr. Werner take the time to have a good look at these videos.El Wayne is absolutely correct Mr Hugenholtz is very good. Nice shifting,no unnecessary down shifting, good control of the car at all times. nice speed thru the chicane, nice work getting by the silver SWB and two hands well placed on the wheel.And El W is right again. Sullivan does the whole thing just a bit better. All the same qualities but just better. Definitely faster thru the chicane, nice work signaling the lightweight by and keeping it well in sight, both hands always well placed on the wheel. great work controlling the car under braking and cornering and no wild sliding around and wheel spin. Thanks EL Wayne for these videos. They are great examples of really good competition road course driving. tongascrew
Tongascrew, I will take the credit seeing that I posted it (albeit with missing link). I have seen multiple Werner onboard clips and he seems to me to be tougher on the machinery (his drive in Oldtimer at Spa in Birdcage Maserati comes to mind) At the end of the day, he gets the drives so more power to him and there were also plenty of drivers in period that were known to be hard on the cars. The stakes are different today.
Goodwood TT qualifying lap times 2012: Hugenholtz 1:33.488 and Sullivan 1:30.357 in the Drogo 2009: Hurtgen 1:29.735 and Werner 1:28.241 in the Breadvan Draw you own conclusion
Thanks for the great videos, A real joy to see. No one questioned the ability of HH or his re-passing of VG´s SWB. And Danny Sullivan is a professional racing driver (great save, reminding me of Nigel Mansell 1990 Imola GP) and therefore in a completely different league. I see no connection with the subject of this thread, though. The video is of a different car, at a different track and during a race as opposed to a qualifying lap. Not comparable in my opinion.
The Breadvan has been sold to an Austrian but remains based in the UK. It will be nice to see it again next week at the Tour Auto. When you watch videos of it being driven don't forget it has a four not five speed gearbox. Having seen Max race it several times I can confirm he is very quick, he likes a bit of a dramatic driving style which is fine but what he did with that car is world class and he could be silk smooth if he wanted to. It was great to see that Gabriella raced it and did well, Gabi is a really fun girl, at Le Mans Classic 2008 when I was driving the Breadvan with Max and Moritz she lent me her 1960's Multipla, a fun drive, then we all piled into it to get to the driver's meeting and the Gendarmes were waving her through like royalty, she was laughing that she could get away with murder in it Best regards, Marc
"The Breadvan delivers in 30 minutes, or it's Free!" I thoroughly enjoyed the video and admire the driver for flogging this extraordinarily valuable car that hard. Although it's not the smoothest driving I've ever seen, I thought it was pretty good! It's really easy to criticize from the comfort of your chair, but when you're in the cockpit of a sliding, twitchy car at speed and high G's sometimes it get's pretty hard to stay smooth. See Ayrton Senna, arguably one of the best drivers of all time in this Qualifying video from Monaco. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh6bwZ4ooTI
We all know the stats of the Breadvan {apple]. Which Drogo [orange] was it and compare its stats with the Breadvan. Then we can have a valid discussion. tongascrew
On the race tracks of the time the object was, as Fangio once said, to win at the "slowest speed possible." If this is also Mr Werner's plan post some other clips of his driving. I would like to think he can do better. From what I have seen I wouldn't have him drive me to the grocery store. tongascrew
He never ruined any engine of any car he ever drove. This included Alfa GTA, 300S, Birdcage, 250F, Ferrari Breadvan and prewar Alfa Monza (1.OA in a spectacular race 2012 at Goodwood Revival). Did you ever drive a car of that caliber or any other race car? Do you know that driving a vintage race car means you have to balance a combination of rear wheelspin, over-steering and counter-steering in corners which leads to the use of maximum revs when you come out of it. I doubt.....! So why do you criticise a very successful race driver who has more experience you will ever have? OK, then go on foot to the grocery store.....
The Brooklands Trophy was indeed spectacular and it takes real skill to lap in the 140's. To cap it all, after winning he drove the car back home to Germany
So you are comparing Mr Werner's successes to the likes of Fangio, Moss,Senna,Prost, Schumacker and the current group of F1 driver of today. F1 is back.Watch the event tomorrow. Then compare. And by the way you might enlighten us with the"very successful" racing career of Mr Werner. I have watched the very and not so very best drivers now for over fifty years. That is why I have every reason to be critical of what I see as a really bad example. Show me the "right stuff" and I will be glad to change my mind. tongascrew
How could you compare historic drivers like Fangio, Moss, with very good drivers in our days in historic cars, cars that now have much better tires, better oils, better pipings, much less tolerances due to better sealings. All the material used today in hist. race cars are better - pistons, bearings, valves, etc., etc - and even the fuel is much better today than that stuff Fangio, Moss, Behra, Collins, Hawthorn had in their tanks. Misfiring was a very common reason to retire a car in the ol days. Today misfire happens, but its very rare. And - btw.- Fangio`s epic lap times in the German GP 1957 was beaten by Peter Hannen in 1999 --- in the same car, the 250F #2529! And why do you compare the driving stye of a very talented driver like Max Werner in a 60s car with the abilities of Senna, Prost and "Schumacker"...? Those drivers and their cars are a total different cup of coffee and they never raced in hist. cars!
No, no: it was 2008, driving it again, on track...best sensations I ever had outside of bed. 2010 was the year of the heatwave and 2012 the rain, That last year I filmed 10 minutes at 4am at Arnage in pouring rain that was quite intense. I need to put that on Utube. Best regards, MS
Having watched the video I honestly do not understand what the fuss is all about, and I certainly can't see any evidence that Werner can't drive and would be unsafe to travel to the shops with. For comparisson, here's some guy called Moss behind a (much) lower powered Cortina. I think he knows a thing or two about driving, too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJgrTfV8n5k Also a lot of steering movement. I think what some fail to understand is that these cars have quite wobbly suspension and the vintage tires have a lot of thread movement. Not the most sophisticated rubber there. This is how these cars are driven fast, fact. - The video is awesome. Noise is fantastic and happy to see it not wasting away in a temperature controlled garage on velvet carpet behind some ropes.
you´re correct... 2010 was HOT!!! the Breadvan was parked next to a 599 GTO and looked minuscule. Was driving around in the Multipla that year
Did you watch this today? Even the guys in the booth praised this as one of the best in several years. Those on board camera shots showed what truly great driving is all about. Shure the equipment is very different but the basics of driving them hasn't changed much .And to compare Fangio in 1957 to Hannen in 1999 is just ludicrous. By 1999 those 14.7 miles were very different from 1957. There had been numerous changes to the track surface, shapes of turns, fuels, brake shoe equipment,tires etc. Even Moss driving that Cortina was a different story, though comparing any two drivers driving a Ford Cortina and the Breadvan is also just ludicrous.It's easy, if you want to shut me up. Just post some clips Werner doing some good great competition driving and I will change my tune tongascrew
...eh...what? It was you who compared drivers like Senna, Proust, "Schumacker" with the current driving in a hist. race car. I fully respect your enthusiasm, but it seems that you have no clue about driving a hist. race car. And why did you repeat the facts I listed ("....fuels, brake shoe equipment,tires etc. ....") to support your arguments??? Sorry - rather strange....! And btw - I prefer to see a good race driver racing in reality rather than on YouTube. Max`performance in his father`s Alfa Monza in Goodwood 2 years ago was exceptional! I saw Max performing in a 300S against Thomas Bscher`s mighty 450S some years ago at Hockenheim and Monza in the Ferrari-/Maserati-Challenge. The way he was chasing the beefy V8 was fantastic. He finished 1st (1st day) and 2nd (2nd day) in Hockenheim and 1st. on both days in Monza. Seems you miss that all....
