Should Red Bull make their own engine ?

No point. Because that was Jaguar before.

Secondly, BMW? Those losers ran away from the sport. The last manufacturer i hope to see return to the sport.

 

Honda ran away too. Now they are back

 

Yes I can along with that, and I think that is what we are witnessing now.

 

Bmw had a pretty solid run. Few wins and poles. Nothing to be ashamed of i hope they return one day.

 

BMW won a championship with Brabham with Piquet under the turbo rule of the time.

BMW is mostly interested in touring car racing, where they have quite a good track record.

 

If BMW had done nothing more than produce that four cylinder turbo (1,000BHP in Q trim)
Its tenure in F1 would have been successful.

 

And Honda, and toyota, and cosworth, and jaguar, and mercedes, etc..

you are saying you wouldn't want to see these teams back in F1? So you don't like MB back in F1?

 

I'd like to see all the big boys leave F1.
. Their size allows them to force agendas that aren't necessarily good for the sport.

 

I don't.

F1 is the stadium where the car manufacturers battle each other at the highest level.

Garagistes are welcome but if they were all there is, I wouldn't care.

 

Does that include Ferrari as well?

Because Ferrari is no more than the racing arm of the Group FIAT-Chrysler nowadays. IMHO.

I think F1 shouldn't have a World Constructors Championship, but a World Teams Championships, and be fielded mostly by garagists, like in the past.

Car manufacturers keep coming and leaving F1, imposing their views and then dropping out with complete disregard to the effect on F1.

Honda, Renault, Ford, BMW, Mercedes, Peugeot, Toyota, all have muscled their way in and then abandoned ship when it suited them. How many times have Honda and Renault been in and out?

Next to that, teams like McLaren, Williams, Sauber, the ex-Toleman Enstone team (now Lotus), or the ex-Minardi Feanza outfit (now Toro Rosso) have been there all along.

It's a pity that tobacco money isn't allowed in F1 anymore ...

 

Don't forget the garagistes kept F1 alive in the 60s after the departure of Mercedes and Maserati.

Without the embryonic teams like Lotus, Brabham, Cooper, BRM, Lola, BRP, Mclaren or Eagle, lead by enthusiastic individuals, F1 would have died. Without independent engine builders like Coventry-Climax, Weslake, BRM or Cosworth GP would have been doomed.

You cannot trust car manufacturers to support F1 in the long run.

All they are interested is promoting their brand for a period of time, after which they just drop out at the stroke of a pen.

In any case, car manufacturers don't engineer the cars that carry their names; those are the products of small companies they take over for a time. Toyotas were made in Germany, not Japan. Honda were designed in Bracknell, UK, not in Japan. Mercedes took over the Brawn outfit, ex-Honda, ex-BAR to enter F1; the engines are from Ilmor UK. Nothing is German in Mercedes! The Renault team (now Lotus) is ex-Benetton, ex-Toleman
and British, not French! etc... etc...

 

Of course not.

Ferrari maintains a small team mindset. If only expressed by their inabilities.

 

If they actually made the cars it would be different. As it is they're essentially sponsors looking first and last to capitalize on their investments.

 

When BMW entered F1 many people expected them to succeed and as a result the main engineering base of F1 to start to gradually move from the UK to Germany. They were wrong of course as they failed, and now even Merc run cars and engines built in the UK.

To be honest there was quite a lot of relief in the UK motorsport industry when BMW dropped out, as this industry is a prestigious one and employs thousands of people.

The best option for BMW would be to copy Merc and buy out a UK engine supplier such as Cosworth.

 

This is interesting and reflects my thoughts. As a Renault owner I admire them and their cars as being innovative and different but I dont know why they dont capitalize on their F1 success more. After all, thats surely the only reason to be in F1, to maintain a brand image.
I am also surprised they can afford to still be in F1. Their sales seem dismal, especially here in the UK where they have fallen off a cliff since they seemed to have stopped being "different" a few years ago and their latest models are just standard Euro-boxes.

There is a large Renault Racing HQ in walking distance from my house, which has big transporters parked outside it, but I have absolutely no idea what they do, or what kind of racing they are involved in. They seem to want to keep it secret.

 

I don't think BMW had too much trouble designing good engines themselves.

They did alright during the first turbo era, when they powered Piquet to a world championship with Brabham (Bernie owned the team then). They probably had the most powerful engine and the best package in the field. They even used a standard touring car engine block!

Later, they came back as engine supplier at Williams and then Sauber and were let down by the chassis, but the engines were fine too. Mario Thyssen was the sport manager then. I think it was a mistake from him to get BMW to have its own F1 team; it makes more sense to be just an engine supplier, IMHO.

 

I think that F1 isn't a natural environment for Renault.

Renault is traditionally associated rallying and touring car racing by the public at home. France doesn't even have a GP anymore. The unions at Renault have even campaigned in the past for a stop to the F1 effort.

 

I think Renault will eventually get their engine up to snuff. Makes no sense, too me, for RBR to build their own engine now. RBR/Merc package in the future?????

 

Why would Merc give their nemesis an engine :-\

 

I already thought about that part before I replied, I just used what seems to be the best current engine as an example.

 

Yes, I really don't want to see BMW back. Why? Well, when the rest, Honda, Toyota, etc, left, they did it with honour and dignity. Toyota apologized non stop, and focused its efforts in Le Mans.

Honda left, but they gave enough cash to let Brawn run the team for a year. They did it in a fair way.

BMW just ran away and almost 400 people were unemployed. They didn't apologize, nothing. They tried t sell the team, i think in a dodgy way, to some unknown consortium, and they didn't put any effort to ensure or push for the sale. Instead, Peter Sauber had to come back to rescue his old team and all the employees.

Which is why i hope to never see them back. They might go through some difficult times again, and just run away again.

 

If Red Bull makes the decision to stay in F1 for a long period of time, it'll make sense to make an engine, but probably only when new regs come along again. Honda has been developing their engine for over a year already I believe. To get a competitive engine and sell it to others (bigger chance of winning thus increasing brand awareness, which is why Red Bull is in F1) they can realistically only have a competitive engine ready by 2016. The way things are going, I can see part of the power unit regulations changing (mainly the engine part to something that'll make enough noise to keep F1 alive) quite quickly so it'll be a huge waste of resources if they could only run their engine for a year.

 

I am not interested by these considerations. People lose their jobs every day and others get new jobs at the same time.
F1 is a business like any other. It's a doggy dog's world out there ...

If BMW was to come back because it suits them, that would be OK with me.
But like for Renault, I don't think F1 is the right environment for BMW.
I was surprised that BMW tried to buy Williams and bought Sauber later to form their own team. It didn't fit with the image I had of the company.

 

When you look at ALL the things Red Bull sponsors, and the amount of money they spend to do those things, I am waiting for that house of cards to come crashing down, because I simply don't see (or believe) the ROI vs. profit from the drink itself, how can they spend that much money, Coke or Pepsi (or Budweiser) they ain't.

And no, they don't need to build their own motor, this isn't like the 80's when TAG built Porsche Turbos, or Megatron built BMW motors, if memory serves.

 

I have the same exact thoughts when I see all the weathertech commercials and ads.