Question about quality.

I don't own a Ferrari yet. I'm looking for a 360 to purchase at the moment. I've noticed when someone posts something that is wrong with their car many people chime in and say Ferrari quality, Ferrari attention to detail, or Ferrari engineering.

Is this just people trying to complain or is there that little attention to detail in these cars?

 

Ferraris have a lot of attention to detail, just not the details of a normal car. They get all the details right on the seating position, steering feel, suspension ride quality and handling, and of course the shape and styling of the car. But the details like ensuring great durability of components, maybe not so much.

There is a reason that Ferraris are considered the best drivers cars in the world, and you don't get that status for lack of attention to detail or engineering. Its just that they put their focus on the driving experience, not the long term ownership and maintenance experience.

 

To put it simply, Italian cars are not as durable as, say, German Porsches. The Italians make more beautiful cars, just can't beat them up like a Porsche.

 

what he said. as an owner of BMWs, Porsches, and Ferrari, nothing comes close to German over engineering. But nothing touches the pure rolling work of art as Ferrari. if you want a DD or lower maintenance costs with available parts go German. if you want something to look at that will run to a show or get coffee on the weekends, go Ferrari (the older it is, the fewer parts)

 

That's part of it. There are also some serious WTF cheap parts in the interiors, Ferrari and Maserati. It's one thing to be delicate. It's another to be made from crappy materials or substandard parts. Inconvenient truth for this forum but it is what it is.

 

Yup. This video here posted up in the 348/355 section just cracks me up. If it doesn't crack a smile on your face now, it will when you own one and you have a silly problem like this.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lltGYGvodHw]Ferrari Quality - F355 - YouTube[/ame]

 

My experience with my 986 was broken plastic crap in the cabin, crappy plastic parts in the engine bay that crack and leak, door lock cylinders that both had to be replaced on a 7 year old car..

Basically my experience with the 360 is a car that is just as reliable, if not more so, than my 986 Boxster. I've found build quality to be just as good if not better on the Ferrari. The sticky interior.. yup Porsche had that too. Every car has its "weak points". A design feature that will fail or needs to be upgraded. Everyone loves to talk about Porsche. Ferrari instituted a Campaign to replace the Variators. Porsche never offered to replace the IMS bearings. It took a class action lawsuit to get ANY funds to the owners.

Having actually fixed my car myself.. repairs are easier to make and the components are more durable than my 986. e.g. Did you know that like in my mini the clutch cylinders are plastic? In the FCar they're aluminum. That explains why at 50k miles I had to replace the one in my boxster. My 928 had the original working great after 25 years! BTW the 928's horn does the same thing.. but I have to liftup on the steering wheel for it to make contact.

Its all based on your perceptions.. some people expect the world, others see it as it is.
I think it has good build quality even compared to Porsche.

 

Had four porsches here, and four ferrari/maseratis. I can't disagree that porsche has their weak points. I just don't feel blatantly abused by them the way I do when I consider say the sound system in Ferraris, or the durability of the leather in Maseratis.

 

German cars last longer in the hands of ham fisted owners. You can abuse them and bang them around, rarely breaking anything.

The interior and controls of the Italian cars are more delicate. Respect the car and nothing will fail though.

 

One of my favorite bumper stickers: "All of the Parts Falling Off This Car Are of The Finest Italian Craftsmanship"

Actually, my F cars have not had many big problems, but they do have some really annoying issues, like sticky switch gear and shrinking leather. The unforgiveable part is that it appears that multiple generations have sticky switchgear - 355, 360 and even 430, if the complaints I have read are true.

 

My Porsche 996 engine self destructed at 33k miles about 6 months ago, not IMS-bearing related. About a $30k bill with clutch, flywheel, labor, etc. Porsches fail big time too, even the 997.1's.

 

Well, i think the complaints are about when you pay a premium for a car - Ferrari or Porsche etc.. the expectation is that not only do you get first rate performance but that the car will stay together and not have "common" problems.

My 308 - was not well put together and when I bought it, it had been "used" ... so it did not stand up well to being driven.... my 328 on the other hand has been much much better - electrical issues aside. When I see newer cars have repeated issues - it makes me crazy - $300K for a new car - it should literally be perfect - for a long while... no erroneous electrical quirks etc...

However Ferrari is the ultimate in the more you pay the less you get... its kinda of perverse. Slap a part in a yellow box covered in pracning horses and you can charge 3x the cost of the same part for a BMW....

All that being said -I wonder what the percentage of Ferrari's still on the road vs. total production - I would think its in the very high 80% or more range. higher than Porsche - as they made so fewer cars.

 

And if you want to go even better, buy Japanese.

 

That would make a great liscence plate frame.

 

The 986/996 were the most poorly built Porsches I've experienced.

My brother has had two 997s and a 991 -- great cars. I've had a 993 and 356 -- great cars.

With Ferrari, after the 328, things went downhill.

 

It's worse than that. It really started with the 348 and 512 TR. It continues to this day.

1989 to 2014 and counting. I guess 25 years is not long enough to fix some bad decisions.

 

How did things go downhill? The cars evolved properly and are at their strongest point now.

The performance is unmatched.
The cars are as usable now as any other marque, both for short and long trips.
Reliability is very decent when you keep in mind the higher level of technology they have.

Aside from the sticky buttons issue, there isn't a single tangible aspect on any modern Ferrari that is inferior to the 328.

 

I beg to differ on the 328. Quality based on what? I find the post 2000 cars with the "modern production" touches tend to have higher quality control than the older cars.

My stoopid 986 almost turned me off to Porsche, then I got a mini. And now I relaize just how bad modern production cars have become after the warranty. Sadly I'm probably going back to a 997 or 987.

 

Quality based on reliability.

No cracked headers, no bad varietors (360) leading to engine failure, no failed convertible top mechanisms (because sometimes simple is better), no failed $20,000 nav units (retail part cost on California), no shrinking dash or airbag covers, no sticky plastic, no F1 actuators ($15,000) to leak, no DCT transmission failures (California) ... and if the battery gets disconnected you just reconnect it and set the clock. Also see the 360/F430 section for flaking paint issues, etc.

None of this crap existed on the 328, and the only stuff that breaks, in my experience, is due to age, not bad design or excessive complexity. The car was debugged over a decade as the 308, and Ferrari had it down perfectly with the 328.

Ask longtime Ferrari techs which model they would actually own.

 

See my post above.

Yes, the newer cars are faster and easier to drive. That's a selling point, but not what I meant by 'quality'.

 

Well said. The things that seem to fail on the newer cars are things that weren't on the older ones. The learning curve appears long and steep for a small volume manufacturer.

 

FYI---TODAY....my 17,000 mile Jag XF-Supercharged is sitting at Newport Beach Jag having the dash replaced....shrunk leather on dash. Always garaged, never outside for long. Still...a GREAT CAR...stuff happens on every car....

 

The cost of the repairs are higher than other makes, but the reliability isn't any worse. With more features and technology comes a chance to fail. It doesn't make Ferrari any inferior to any other make, including the Germans.

Take a look at the electrical problems that plague BMW. The suspension issues of Mercedes, between both Airmatic and ABC. Sure, any car from the 80's can be called more reliable than these as well, simply because these features didn't exist back then. Not a quality issue at all, but more technology and mass production based.

If Ferrari made a brand new 328 equivalent, with the exact same specs and lack of features as the original, everyone would covet the car and 3 people would buy it. The reality of the matter is people want options. People want features. These items can and will fail at some point though.

 

I hope some day we can say "better late than never"...

 

I wasn't comparing Ferrari to other makes. My post stated that the 328 was a high watermark for reliability for Ferrari.

You seem to agree that Ferraris (and other modern cars) are more prone to fail now because they are more complicated. I agree.