Working on the sound

I'd suggest that F1 has never been what you think that it should be.
It's always been a collaborative exercise.
That said, when they're on the track they should be allowed to race with the minimum of regulatory interference.

 

It was like this in the 60's (actually I think from the 2.5 litre formula) to I think 90's when artificial fuel stops came in. Yes Brabham in the 70's (or 80's) did start their cars low on fuel to get a jump and then took on fuel but it was completely optional and most didn't do this.

Back in those days they started the race and raced to the end. No tyre or fuel stops and [size=+2]it was fantastic[/size]. Why IMO for example Lauda and Prost > Schumacher because the likes of Lauda and Prost had to think strategy for themselves, it was not spoon feed to them.

The team part ended with preparing the car. Personally that should be where it ends. I could not give a flying **** if a team of a thousand men can change a tyre in a milli-second ... big whoppie!! Why not include a spark plug change?, or heck lets do an oil change on the engines too ... all this rubbish is NOT the purpose of F1 motorracing. F1 is not an endurance race, we already have Le Mans, etc. where the mechanics can demonstrate how fast they are, F1 is where mechanics and engineers demonstrate how awesome their design, build and preparation skills are.
Pete

 

All races are endurance races. Teams have to balance power vs. longevity. Particularly in the era of mandated lifespans for motors and gearboxes.
Where I do agree with you is that today's pit stops are artificial. The rule requiring two compounds per race is foolish. The teams should have the choice of compounds and so the number of stops. Including none.

 

There are hardly any 'skilful passes' I'm F1 at the moment, most are the result of tyres, DRS, etc. reintroducing fuel stops would at least make the strategy more interesting, and see teams taking chances (like schumi in France a long time ago, a second a lap slower ultimately than the macs, and doing four stops to counter this with lower fuel throughout the race and fresher tyres, beating the macs to the line)

Without extra options, what is the point of this year, Ferrari and McLaren have both already publicly given the titles to Mercedes, 5 races in, and Ferrari have admitted they are racing for second place! 14 races to go, and titles over........ Hope the FIA are happy with the rules they have mandated as they have ruined the season with 75% to go...... Good job numbskulls

 

A big factor in the lack of passing is track configuration. On the older non-Tlke tracks like Spa there tends to be more "honest" passes.

 

The old cars had 2 turbos, separate exhaust for each bank. I keep saying it, that's the HUGE difference between now and then, but I guess most just ignore it.

Harmonics change when combining into a single turbo/exhaust, hence why today's cars are much quieter.

 

After investigating other options I conclude that you must be right.

So could they run two turbos with the energy recovery system they have now? I think they could but it would require that where they currently have a single exhaust driven part (fan) they would have two either (note I thinking about the superior Mercedes setup):
1. The simple assumption that both turbos spin at the same speed and therefore share a common shaft (but where would the exhaust gases exit for the first turbo?), or
2. They don't share a common shaft but are geared together and sit side by side to drive a single inlet compressor. One advantage of this layout is that the exhaust pipe to the turbos would now be a little shorter
2. A complex clutch and gearbox system connecting the two to drive the single inlet compressor allowing different turbo speeds (over complex and unnecessary I think)

I think it is a safe assumption that they both would or should be spinning at the same speed so a pretty simple change. Tiny little extra bit of weight for potentially a lot better sound.

Heck they need to try this!
Pete

 

Agree but that should be done on the track, by the driver (yes I'd ban radio commuinication with the pits too) not using pitstops

Very much agree
Pete

 

Darn. Two agrees leaves me nothing to work with.
Off to bed then.

 

I don't think it's a s simple as that.

 

I do, see diagram. Of course there will be extra losses thanks to the added gearbox connecting the two exhaust parts ... and they would have to resize the exhaust part of the turbos as surely they would need to be smaller, plus new extractors ... would not be cheap but if they sounded better then a solid investment

Pete
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I believe it is safe to say that if road going Ferraris sounded like this year's F1 Ferrari, fewer current owners would buy them and I would be at the top of the list.

Houston, we have a problem.

 

I mean as far as repackaging everything, it's not that simple. In a road car where you have ample room to play with, yeah, easy peazy, but in F1 where everything is packaged so tight...

 

Tough job engineering the sound. I do enjoy the racing more when the engines are the proper pitch. To make it perfect all teams should be using Rolls Royce Merlins as power plants

 

This is actually a very good idea, spot on. This would also allow for potentially better exhaust manifold packaging as well, not to mention two exhaust pipes. The only issues may be that the MGU-H would require a bit more energy to spool the turbo during times of turbo lag, there will be additional heat in the area, and specifically Ferrari; they will have to redesign their MGU-H as I believe it is currently located under their turbo, but that being said I'm certain Ferrari are seriously redesigning their entire system anyway.

The point is, NOW is the time to decide on something like this, as it will take until next year for it to really work anyway. I say make it optional.

 

Bingo. I said it earlier in one of these threads; the first time in history, the street Ferrari's sound better than the F1 Ferrari's.

Not good.

-F

 

A street anything sounds better than the current F1 cars, crikey, whenever my cleaning lady is vacuuming, I keep thinking she's switched the TV on and I'm missing F1 practice!

 

LOL!

 

Ouch.

-F

 

The front wing mount on the Ferrari makes it look a bit like a vacuum cleaner, so I suppose it ought to sound like one as well!

 

You are forgetting that these turbines are also being used as energy recovery systems, and rather than a waste gate, the turbine speed/power can be in part controlled by the electrical recovery systems. Drag on the turbine with the generator, is going to be pulling energy from the exhaust, and thus, reducing sound.

Frankly, I was listening to a vid with a 1950's F1 engine, and it sounded even worse than what we have now.

 

As an F1 fan, "of a certain age" I'd just like to interject here: I never want to see refueling pitstops come back. Ever.

Now, the trumpet bell. Yes, hysterical, and sad. Sad that anyone would think this could possibly be a viable solution. I mean, just what the neighborhood needs, a louder leaf blower.

Finally, this formula has good points - I don't mind the hybrid tech at all - but it's way to restrictive and filled with niggling little rules. Fuel flow rates? WHO CARES?! If you're already limiting their amount of fuel, why tell them how they can use it too? I really, really hate that one, but there are others.

What this formula needs more than a good exhaust note is to be simplified. Though if you just do ONE THING, make it a twin turbo and dual exhaust. That will help a lot, but their has to be an incentive for higher revs as well. High revs sound sexy without having to be ridiculously loud, but this formula doesn't require high revs, so the exhaust timbre will be ever lame.

Cheers,

George

 

^

The Aero changes were a HUGE step in the right direction, lower noses & smaller front wings. Combine this with removing traction control, and the races are much much better. The cars can follow closer without as much aero wash as they had before. Its harder to push to the limits out of a corner, and easier to make mistakes, so more passing opportunity as well.

The sound really isn't all that bad either, its just different.