Ferrari 458 Speciale, Italia and 430 Scuderia vs 997.2 Turbo

Comparing a Porsche turbo to a McLaren and a GTR would be more meaningful than comparing to three NA Ferraris. Porsche turbo is a GT car more than any of the ones you or I mentioned. Now if you want a real visceral experience, drive the .2 GT3RS.

 

Depends what you want. Porsche: great daily driver a "non-event" to drive compared to the other two. Very fast as well.

458: great combination of drivability and still an event to drive. You could get away with driving it every day and still feels quite special. More "digital" than the scud. Very very fast.

Scud: biggest sense of occasion when driving. Way more focused car then the other two. That focus comes at the cost of compromised comfort (no glove box, carbon interior door skins etc). But feels very very special every time you get in. Some say as fast (or at least very close) to the 458 on track--but the driver has to be more "involved" to get it to go fast.

 

I owned a 997 turbo cab and now a 458 spider.
Porsche 911 is not in the same league with Ferrari's V8 rear engine (the price is about half the 458, though). Maybe better to be compared with California.
The only thing that the 911 turbo has when comparing to 458, is speed. The rest don't even come close.
These are the points that Porsche 911 is by far not in the Ferrari's league :
Passion : Driving a Porsche 911 is like driving a VW golf turbo with lowering spring and nice body kits. Nobody will look at you, and you don't feel special at all.
Sound : The only 911 that sounds good is GT3 (still far from 458). The turbo doesn't have any special sound.
Rarity : When you drive a 911, you can see many of your cousins on the road.
Driving fun : 911 turbo is less fun, maybe because of the engine being pushed too way back. The car is by far less agile then 458. Maybe only driver with racing skill can bring out the potential.
458 actually feels like driving a go kart with a huge engine. That sensation of the rear being pushed out when cornering, is more fun than 911.
As for the reliability, 458 is as reliable as 911, but not the 430 though (clutch).

 

Well, as a current owner of a 997.2 Turbo S, I can tell you that the car is stupid fast. It is a great daily driver and faster in every category (other than on a track) than an Italia...with that being said, I'm shopping for an Italia currently. Yes, the 911 is half the price, but like everything in life you get what you pay for.

I am really curious about the new C7 Z06...650hp with a real stick shift, now that is going to be a fun car as well. Will be interesting to see how Ferrari raises the bar on the 458 replacement.

 

No, not really: Ferrari 458 Italia vs Porsche 911 Turbo S PDK (997) [29793287]

 

I owned both for 3 years. Those flexibility figures don't look right. The Turbo S murders the Italia in midrange acceleration.

 

You feel faster because it's a turbocharged engine, certain rpm the turbo will kick-in, and the car has a sudden-push sensation. Some more it is using a pdk (matic), so no effort needed, just step the pedal and go.
For NA (458) you need to work hard like being aggressive with the throttle and paddle shift to bring out it's real potential. Same with 911 GT3 or Carrera GT.
For a straight 0-200 mph race, 458 will win from start to max speed.

 

Agree. Turbo always gives a sense of power that NA can't replicate without revs. I was given a ride in a F12 and it didn't have the sudden torque surge of my F10 M5, but boy, did the acceleration kept piling on and on. It was linear acceleration instead of a sudden surge.

 

I've been lucky enough to have a 997 Turbo, 997.1 GT3, 997.2 GT3RS, 997.2 GT3RS 4.0, Italia, and now a Speciale. I agree the Turbo is missing something. It's a great car; fast, comfortable, reliable. I drove mine all year, with winter tires on it it was fantastic in the snow. I could take it on long trips, it ate up the highway. And it was fun on back roads. But I agree it doesn't have a particularly sporty feel, it doesn't sound good (or make any noise at all, really), and just wasn't engaging to drive. It's a really, really good GT car, but maybe not a car that appeals as much to people who want to be involved in the driving.

The various GT3 versions are completely different. They are very raw, and very involving. The 4.0 has 500 HP (conservative Porsche number) and easily feels as quick as the Italia. Steering feel is amazing in all the 997 GT3s, the brakes are strong and fade-free, throttle response is instantaneous and linear. They're loud with that distinctive Porsche exhaust note that encourages you to keep the revs high . While they have stability control and traction control they're non-intrusive and can be turned off. The 997 GT3s are all 3 pedal cars with a standard manual shifter which IMO makes them more fun to drive. It's a different experience than a 458. You have more control of everything, you can feel everything the car is doing. You have to work a little bit more, but it's also more rewarding. I love the Italia and the Speciale, and if I had to pick between them and the GT3's it would be a tough call. Typically my favorite is whichever I drove last . The Ferraris have incredible power delivery and great balance. The technology in them is really cool...braking hard for a turn letting the car downshift and auto-blip through several gears is pretty awesome . And the sound just makes me smile. It's still a different experience than a GT3, where you come into the same turn, braking hard, heel/toe downshifting to get the right gear and keep the car on the limit, then get back on the throttle and use that rear weight bias to plant the back end and get a good launch down the next stretch of road/track/whatever (hopefully not "whatever" ). Both experiences are fun, but just very, very different.

So IMO the fun factor is probably equal between the Ferrari and the GT3s. Depends on what you're in the mood for on a particular day. Passion is also a draw. The GT3s are basically the ultimate 911s for people who want to be really involved in the driving. And Porsche has always emphasized that with those cars. Rarity...for sure there are more Porsches on the road. More GT3s? I'm not sure. I think I've seen more 458s than GT3s in the area where I live, though at the racetrack GT3s are pretty much everywhere. Ferraris definitely get more attention, though not by a lot compared to a GT3. in fact, I was in the 4.0 yesterday and several people I know came over to look at it. One person asked me about the Speciale, but the rest of the guys didn't want to hear it. They were far more interested in the 4.0. I think it really comes down to the rarity of the particular model. As far as reliability goes, you can drive a GT3 hard all day, in extreme heat, doing all kinds of rude and unpleasant things to it, and it won't break a sweat. I'm not sure the Italia would hold up as well, though I never had a chance to try it. I suspect the Speciale would do very well, but still wonder if it would be as reliable as a GT3. It's certainly designed and built to take it.

Sorry to run on so long. I guess my point is that IMO it's not at all clear which car is "better", or if either car actually is "better". It depends on what you're looking for and what kind of mood you're in. Both cars have advantages. And both are extremely, extremely good.

 

I believe I saw a glimpse of it (white?) in one of your speciale photos?

An RS 4.0 and a Speciale....what a fantastic duo. Congrats!

 

Thanks. I'm really, really lucky to have them. And I have no idea which I like better.

I had to go back and look at the pics I posted...and it's funny because that is a white 4.0 that you spotted (dang...good eye!), but it's actually a picture on the wall. I've got car-related pictures on the garage walls, and that just happened to be a picture of a 4.0.

Not hijacking the thread, but here's a picture of the car...and from an attention standpoint, I'm sure the stripes, dive planes, big wing, etc. are what make the GT3s draw more than a standard 911.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Gorgeous...love the painted lowers too.

 

You are right on GT3. The 4.0 is a different story. That one basically is a Porsche's cup car, not everybody can get one. I think all sport cars should be built NA. Turbo is for SUV and family cars.
What I don't like from Porsche is that there are too many models for 911. For Ferrari, 458 only comes with 2, coupe or spider, then hardcore Speciale. Porsche has carrera, s, 4s, targa, gt3, turbo, gt2, and all look almost the same. I think it's less exclusive there.

 

Dang! Really good eye! You're the first person that's ever noticed that. I'm not a fan of those pieces being black. They definitely get beat up, but I'd rather repaint them every year or two rather than leave them stock.

 

I'm not fond of turbos either. I much prefer NA. And Porsche definitely has too many 911 models, but I don't understand why. Instead of making things an option, they introduce a whole new model. So the 2 and 4 wheels drive 911s are separate models. The convertible is a separate model from the coupe which is a separate model from the Targa. More power is a different model. Compare to BMW for instance, where with the 3 series there are different models based on the size of the engine, but after that everything is an option. Convertible or not, 4WD drive or not, etc. BMW's approach seems much cleaner. Porsche just makes things more confusing. That said, though, I think for the most part everyone basically thinks of it as 911, 911GT3 (and maybe RS), and 911 Turbo.

 

As others have said, perception may lie but instruments don't.

 

Interesting comparison, although I'm not sure how many actually accelerate while in 5th gear travelling 80 kms, especially since both are equipped with auto manuals. I know for myself I would downshift to the gear offering the most power and then go on up through the gears.