360 value VS 348/355 trend

As far as handling I think it is interesting to see what Derek Bell is quoted as saying the following regarding the 360 in Classic & Sports Cars in a 2000 comparison article:

”Having driven it on a track a worrying trait has emerged which shifts the 360 partially back into the shadow of the 355. The back is skittish – it moves around as you go to turn in and I don’t think it as good in that respect as a 355. It doesn’t dive like the 959 does, but the back is certainly more nervous. Of course that causes you to back off a fraction and when you get into the corner, you don’t get on the power immediately which makes it a little bit more nervous. You have to be much slower into the corner and then get on it and drive it out. It’s not dramatic, but I can’t believe Ferrari would have dialed in that nervousness. They may have been allowing for traction control which just kills it for me. With the 355 you always know exactly how much grip you’ve got through the rear wheels, whereas the back end of this just marked it down. If you’re really pushing it, it does give a few little jolts or hops, but I think you could probably overcome it with damping.

We are talking about supercars, the greatest in the world, and this would be right up there if someone could control the back end. As it is now, I foresee it becoming just another Ferrari, but if they get this back end sorted out it’s truly a great car.”

Derek does know a thing or 2 about cars. I had the opportunity to have dinner with him a couple of years ago and asked what was the scariest car he had driven: Mark Donohue's Porsche 917/30. Derek's own personal Ferraria 2 years ago was a 550.

 

True. The 360 is a "better" car.

It's just less desirable.

As the prices in most of the world are showing.

 

Ok I am going to dare to dip my toe in here!
Apart from Dinos, which rightly or wrongly the market is treating differently right now, we are essentially talking about 5 models of mid engine Ferrari V8s that span 40 years of production. I am not including the 208/308 GTG4, which are great cars, but since they are 2+2s I think they're outside the scope of this discussion.

Models with year with approximate production is below:

308 1975 - 1985 about 12.000 produced
328 1985 - 1989 about 7,400 produced
348 1989 - 1995 about 8,800 produced
355 1995 - 1999 about 11,300 produced
360 1999 - 2005 about 18,000 produced

So what do we see here, each model was produced in modest numbers with no particular model being particulalry rare or particularly plentiful. The are all fabulous cars, because they are all Ferraris and the soul of Enzo lives in each and every one of them. I think if I had to, I could make a credible argument that any one of these is the best of the 5 which tells me there is no single model that stands out on either the positive or negative side.

I think all of the models above had RHD drive and LHD models, and were either GTB. GTS or spider. The 355s and 360s also had a choice of F1 or manual transmission. The engines were wet sump, dry sump, carburated, turbo, fuel injected, the cars were euro spec, US spec etc etc so there are lots of permutations. It would be nice to have a table of definitive production for every permutation but I don't have the energy myself to attempt that. The point being that at the margin there may be permutations that are considered rarer/more desirable (e.g. euro, dry sump, fiberglass 308 say) but generally this is one big pile of cars that are "classic" mid engined V8 Ferraris.

So what is going to affect the long term values of any car from this list?

Perceived desirabilty at the time, permutation (gts. lhd etc), condition, ownership history, service history, cost of ongoing maintenance.

I think the last point is important, I think ultimately the market will penalize cars that are difficult and expensive to service. And difficutly might mean lack of computers for the later cars, or need to drop engine for some of the other cars.

Next most important is condition. Virtually all of these cars are at the age where every piece of rubber either needs to be replaced or is close to being replaced, paint doesn't last for ever, engines which (hopefully are getting driven a lot) will need rebuilds, interiors will become dry and cracked.

Ok i'm rambling here, what is my prediction. I actually think that ultimately all of the models will be worth roughly the same for cars that have been well maintained. As more of these cars get restored, those cars will command a premium. (I am one of the few nut jobs who has restored a 308). Each model will have their following and I can't tell which ones will be major winners or losers beacuse they are all great and special in their own right. At the margin the different features will have some small impact on value.

So if they are all going to be worth a similar amount, what is the $ value of that amount? Well I think it will be tied to the value of the then current V8. A 458 coupe is around $240k and I think ultimately these cars will all be worth around 25% of the cost of the new V8 and as those prices creep up, so will the values. I think there is upside from there though and if there is a big surge in classic cars generally I could see the 25% becoming 25-50%.

 

LOL! There is Hugh Grant who had Elizibeth Hurley and went for the Divine Brown. While that is a datapoint it is an outlier. Some have no taste.

 

If one takes Derek Bell's word as a powerful voice why not put your money where Derek did buy 550's? I did I got two of them.

 

I guess just like the headers that ferrari addressed on the newer 360/430 that have problems.

 

One factor that may be interesting in terms of vehicle restoration is the forward progress of 3d printing. It has the ability to make expensive, difficult to find parts become common place.

 

Well, I think this, and other threads like this, are a complete waste of time. But since I have some time to waste this morning I'll simply say, who cares? What does it matter if a 355 is worth more or less that a 360? IMO, anything Ferrari has offered after the 308 QV is little more than a response to market pressured: more modern looking, more power, higher top speed, more creature comforts,... Even the F40 was little more than Ferrari's response to the Porsche 959. Since then it's just been about bragging rights. So who cares whether a 355 will out pace a 360 in price. I suggest that a 308 will surpass them both in a much shorter time. But I don't really care one way or the other.

 

True that, in the same way some people have delusions of grandeur
.
Besides PorscheGuy comes across as a guy with style and taste. Enough to be looking for a 355 even though he owned a 458 and a Superamerica. They guy can clearly have what he wants even if it is a 355 without people insulting his decision.
Here's a link to PorscheGuys thread, http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/348-355-sponsored-bradan/436487-wtb-f355-gts-will-pay-top-market.html

 

I agree also ...355 is more desired

 

I like fat chicks

 

No matter our personal feelings toward our chosen model, it seems that the final iteration is the one to retain the most value, I.E:

328>308
355>348
Stradale>360
430>360
Scuderia>430

Anything else is down to personal taste.

I see 328s and 360/Stradales doing well over the next 10 years. Out of the list above, I see the 360 and to a lesser degree the 348 as struggling to hold their value moving forward. The 360 is helped by the fact that the 430 is almost 1.5x~2x in cost right now.

 

Fair enough, and agreed.

 

So far advanced with electronic that it is no longer "old school"... You said it. Iconic, well only time will tell but the 355 is a major step forward (like the lineage) as is the 360 etc. etc.
When you start getting into airbags, power steering etc etc it just proves my point.

 

We had a 1976 caddy that had air bags, olds had them also as an option. I think they were an option around 1974 or so

 

I think you mean 1986 , not 76.

There were no air bags, or abs on any caddy/ Lincoln, Benz in 76,77,78 ...these cars were still carb cars with no air bags or abs back then.

 

The 1973, Oldsmobile Toronado was the first car to utilize airbags.

 

73 tornado was the first front wheel drive car ...where does it say air bags, nothing in the Internet claiming air bags?

 

It's all over the internet.

The First Car Airbag

 

Even though I just bought a 2004 360, I think the keeper is definently the F355.

Mine has a quite rare config, since it is a 6 spd 1999 berlinetta Blu TDF with light grey interior.

On the long term, if I was to keep just one of them, would definently be the F355.

 

Nope 1976 Dad got every option and they were on there for sure. I later found out a few hundred were made with them. Not sure if they worked

 

Not even close. There were front wheel drive cars sold to the public as early as 1929.

 

Pretty cool

I do remember my neighbor was an olds dealer and they did get a lot of the new stuff first, they were great cars in the 60-70's
The Olds 98 we used to park next to our caddys and compair them, pretty much the same car back them

 

From what I know, the first FWD mass producion car was the Citroen Légere, around the 1930's or 40's, But im not 100% sure.
My grandfather had one of those back in the day.