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430 Ball Joints

Discussion in '360/430' started by MaranelloDave, Jun 2, 2014.

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  1. MaranelloDave

    MaranelloDave Formula 3

    Apr 27, 2010
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    #1 MaranelloDave, Jun 2, 2014
    I've noticed some knocking from the front suspension when passing over bumps in the scud. From other threads here I've learned that 360/430 ball joints tend to be short-lived, so I purchased some stainless steel replacement ball joints from Hill Engineering with the plan of having Ferrari install them. I just spoke with my local dealer, however, and they indicated that they may not be willing to install them for fear of damaging the control arms. They did indicate, however, that they'd be happy to sell me new control arms. Obviously, this would be expensive and I'd still have the same crappy original ball joints.

    I know others here have installed the Hill Engineering ball joints. For those who have, did Ferrari do the work? If not, who did?
     
  2. mikeyr

    mikeyr Formula 3

    Jun 17, 2004
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    #2 mikeyr, Jun 2, 2014
    my dealer did the work on my 360, the only thing they told me was that they would not warrantee the Hill parts, labor yes, parts no. If I had gone with the Ferrari control arms they would cover everything on warranty.
     
  3. MaranelloDave

    MaranelloDave Formula 3

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    #3 MaranelloDave, Jun 2, 2014
    Thanks. Hoping my local dealer will agree to do the work.
     
  4. English Rebel

    English Rebel Formula 3

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    #4 English Rebel, Jun 3, 2014
    Sounds like they want to make more profit.
    Alan
     
  5. MaranelloDave

    MaranelloDave Formula 3

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    #5 MaranelloDave, Jun 3, 2014
    Yeah, I know it sounds like that from the info I've given but I honestly don't think it's that. At first the tech said they'd be happy to do it, but as he was thinking it through on the phone with me he remembered an instance when they did this for another customer and the control arm was damaged when removing the old ball joints (scoring of the control arm hole). The tech said he'd check with management and see what they say. He indicated they might agree to do the work with the understanding that they will not be responsible for damage to the control arm.

    While I like the idea Ferrari doing all the work on my car, I'm wondering if it might be better to just find an independent shop to do the work given the circumstances. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
     
  6. English Rebel

    English Rebel Formula 3

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    #6 English Rebel, Jun 3, 2014
    Dave
    I think for work that doesn't require the expensive diagnostic equipment then a good and recommended indie mechanic is the way to go -- and save money in the process. For suspension work I would take mine to my indie.
    Post in the South Central forum for a recommendation in the Atlanta area (I'm sure there is more than one).
    Alan
     
  7. MaranelloDave

    MaranelloDave Formula 3

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    #7 MaranelloDave, Jun 3, 2014
    Thanks Alan. That's what I'm thinking too. There's no magic to the scud's front suspension, as far as I can tell. I would think a reputable shop having experience with suspension work should be able to get this done without any issues.
     
  8. MaranelloDave

    MaranelloDave Formula 3

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    #8 MaranelloDave, Jun 3, 2014
    Update: I found a local Ferrari specialist (Ron Reineke) to help with the ball joint replacement. He told me the issue is that the ball joints are basically glued in place with Loctite. As a result, they can be difficult to remove without damaging the relatively soft aluminum control arms. I hope to have Ron give the ball joint replacement a shot within the next couple of weeks. I will report back with his findings. Fingers crossed for a good result!
     
  9. English Rebel

    English Rebel Formula 3

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    #9 English Rebel, Jun 3, 2014
    Dave
    Glad you found someone. He might try putting some heat to it while using a ball joint puller. Not one of those times to give it a smart blow with a hammer.
    Alan
     
  10. Temuri

    Temuri Karting

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    #10 Temuri, Jun 3, 2014
    They need to be heated well and no issue with the arm... I did it already once. Hill works much better compare to oem.
     
  11. MaranelloDave

    MaranelloDave Formula 3

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    #11 MaranelloDave, Jun 3, 2014
    Good input guys. I will share this with my independent.
     
  12. datax

    datax Karting

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    #12 datax, Jun 6, 2014
  13. F430giallomodena

    F430giallomodena Formula Junior

    Mar 2, 2012
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    #13 F430giallomodena, Jun 6, 2014
    why do you think that ferrari plans out 5 hours labour for a year-service? I ahve been told by a good friend who worked for Ferrari that there are no more than 2 hours for a complete year-service.they need to gain on labour and spare parts.
     
  14. English Rebel

    English Rebel Formula 3

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    #14 English Rebel, Jun 6, 2014
    Not sure about the 430 Scud but normally a yearly included engine oil and filter change, brake flush, and general check over. My indie mechanic charged me $635 on my 360.
    Alan
     
  15. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

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    #15 synchro, Jun 13, 2014
    Thanks, that is very helpful
     
  16. meccanico

    meccanico Rookie

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    #16 meccanico, Jun 13, 2014
    One of the most common causes of the front end clunking noise is the lower shock mount bolts. They are right next to the ball joints and if they are dry they will make the clunk noise like a bad ball joint will make. Remember to use a Moly grease on the bolts when your putting it back together. Otherwise you may still have the same problem after replacing the joints. Like what happened with Datax above.
     
  17. netman

    netman Formula 3

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    #17 netman, Jun 14, 2014
    I too had clunking noises coming from the front of my 360. Changed the lower A arms and still the noise persisted. Wound up being the lower shock bushings. Changed these and no more noise.
     
  18. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
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    #18 singletrack, Jun 14, 2014
    Great info. I need to investigate the same noise on the front right suspension *I think*. It might also be an interior rattle inside the door panel - not sure.
     
  19. MaranelloDave

    MaranelloDave Formula 3

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    #19 MaranelloDave, Jun 14, 2014
    Ferrari examined my suspension and said all is fine, including the balls. There was some looseness in the steering column that was causing some play in the steering wheel, which may have been the problem. Alternatively, the noises I heard may just be normal noises that one typically doesn't notice but can when there's no sound insulation.
     
  20. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

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    #20 singletrack, Jun 14, 2014
    FYI - I just put my car on the lift and checked the lower shock mount bolts - both were not tight enough. The right one was probably at 40-45nm, and the left (not making noise) slightly higher. I went to 80nm on both (based on data I found here) and the front end noise is probably 95% gone. I can only cause noise hitting straight up pot holes now, and I can't localize it to the suspension. Prior to tightening, it was on almost any severe undulation. They have molykote on them, but I will probably order some more and give them another inspection this winter. Thanks for the great info fellas! Very pleased! : )
     

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