Instructor killed at Summit Point today

No doubt. Even experienced drivers write off cars now and then. Stuff happens.

CW

 

So sorry to hear - RIP, that sucks.

 

yep, late afternoon, you get tired and brave at the same time, bad combination (not to mention road car brakes and tires start to wear thin). the serious incidents I've seen in a track day/HPDE event have almost all happened late afternoon.

I've had multiple offers to instruct with various groups, and never have, for the risk of an event like this. it seems like once a year we hear of an instructor seriously injured or killed while a passenger (if it can happen to Sean Edwards...) my hat's off to you for being willing to do right seat work.

I agree a chatterbox is a critical piece of equipment.

 

That's a pretty track...trees for the most part seem far from racing line.....

RIP in any case.

 

Nice in-car footage from 2013 Jefferson 500:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RPvJyEbxXY

Begins on the pace lap and includes start and first five laps (to the red flag, due to collision). T3 is at 1:20 on the opening lap. It's the first left-hander after the green drops. I feel there's pretty good run-off room (lots of sky between the track and barriers/trees), but it's a sufficiently fast corner that if you get it wrong, there will be bent metal.

Summit is a pretty track. If we could just get the weather to be 10 degrees cooler and less humid in the area...

CW

 

From what I hear hyperfest encourages a bit of craziness. There is drifting and a stunt to see how many times a car can be rolled (by professional stuntmen). I hope their Driver Ed events didn't have too-lax safety standards. ANY track can bite you.

Jefferson circuit is the smallest of the three courses there. I am pretty sure the upcoming FCA events are on the Main course.

Very sad to hear this. Hope it was not someone I know.

 

Main is the only circuit worth driving at Summit, IMO. The others are too tight and confined with short straights. IIRC, the Jefferson circuit also has concrete barriers.

Linked video was the Main.

FCA track events usually utilize the Main, but not always.

CW

 

I quit instructing (and track driving, for that matter) a couple of years ago after I stuffed my Z06 into a tire wall.

Just gave it a tad too much gas coming onto the straight, slightly wet track (a track that I'd driven thousands of laps on), cold tires, just couldn't catch it, hit the grass which was like hitting ice, and almost went over the retaining wall.

Car was totaled, and I had internal bleeding from a liver contusion. Rang my bell pretty good. My wife and I decided that I needed to find another way to play with cars, at least until our children are a lot older.

I now look back at how many right seats I sat in when I was an instructor, think about what might have happened, and I shudder. Things happen extremely quickly at high speeds, and sometimes luck isn't on your side.

 

Not to detract from the trajedy of this incident, but what legal implications are there for thr driver if the instructor gets killed or injured?. Insurace, civlil suit, criminal charges?

 

Everyone who enters the track signs a waiver form. That protects the track only, however. It's certainly possible that a wrongful death suit may arise out of this, but I'd also expect that there's a certain amount of assumption of risk in instructing. I don't know how NASA handles that issue. This won't likely be a criminal case unless there are other factors we don't know about. So, it's more likely that the estate of the deceased sues civilly.

CW

 

Agreed, but incidences such as this still remain relatively rare. I'm not saying there aren't a few heart-stoppers along the way for an instructor, but serious injuries and/or death are certainly not the norm.

CW

 

I've been at the track when fatalities have occurred. There is certainly a sinking feeling of helplessness when a fire consumes a car and a driver can't extricate himself. No one wants to witness that. Everyone just wants to see a driver get out of the car once it stops moving.

Still, most (as in the vast majority of) on-track incidents do not result in serious injury. Bent metal, yes. Bumps and bruises, maybe. But, I've also seen horrific impacts where drivers walked away.

CW

 

It's racing, and it can happen.

The driver suffered serious head and neck injuries and was unconscious.

CW

 

They need to rename that track to NYDangerousT

 

Yes. Famous, but second tier and while there is a 24 hour race and the VLN races periodically, people routinely die there. The one time I was there 2 people died in less than 10 days.

 

No, it's definitely NOT racing, but admittedly dangerous to drive at speed. Racing and DE are often (and to me, inexplicably) confused. If you race, you are alone in the car so if you hit a stationary object you do not risk anyone else. Racing is a completely different animal from DE and I have a zero tolerance policy when I see DE drivers getting all racy.

Side impacts terrify me, as it is very hard to protect against head motion (e.g. HANS is ineffective) and you have little or no crumple zone. In my race cars I always use a seat with a halo style headrest or at least side net, and carefully pad the cage with proper high density padding (not pipe insulation). But that is not much. One of my school instructors was badly injured at Texas Motor Speedway while giving rides for another organization and his passenger killed when equipment failure occurred at speed and they went sideways into the wall.

That said, if there was no car-car contact, this could just be a mistake, off, and impact that could have any number of causes including driver error or mechanical failure.

I count myself fortunate to have never injured myself in 20+ years of DE and 10+ of racing, but never kid yourself that you are immune due to superior skills, etc.

What a horrible, horrible tragedy and hopefully something can be learned to prevent it from happening again.

 

I was there for Hyperfest and have been going for probably 10 years. Was in the paddock there of Jefferson when the EMS responded. The Hyperdrives were on the Jefferson. Jefferson was just expanded and unsure if they were able to use the extended segment.

Shortly after there was another serious accident requiring medivac helicopter at the bridge on main that shut down access to that paddock. Those were licensed roadracers and I watched from turn 9 as one thought he could pass in the grass on the inside going up hill toward bridge.

Hyperfest is nutty crazy! Youtube 'Hyperfest fights' if you want to see people getting tazzered. Half the people are ametuer roadracers, rallyteams and drifters in legit sanctioned competition. Problem is its marketed to attract much more including trouble makers who camp and party all night. Army of police stay very busy. Then they try to let everyone participate in more than just the carshow, gokarts or moonbounce by adding the hyperdrive. I also think NASA's licensing procedure of way too many HPDEs beyond certifying drivers are safe and understand the procedures w/ instuctors puts the instuctors at risk for no reason.

I dunno about 'cut down trees' for pussification. I've whizzed by a million trees full throttle w/ no runoff or gravel traps doing rally, hit a few also. Some sports the risk are part of attraction. Surviving racing Pikes Peak, the thrill reaching the summit was like nothing else. Summit Point Main when I did it after years of rally seemed very cushy. Problem here is allowing people w/ streetcars and little or no instruction onto a racetrack. Jefferson may have first been designed as training track but for what cars? The BSR retired police cruiser for learning car control, not the 400HP cars many people bring to Hyperfest to pretend to be racecar drivers.

 

I sat in the last version Pontiac GTO, and could have bought it, really wanted to like it (6 speed) and my 1994 Trans Am was long in tooth, at that point.

But the engine was past 400HP by then, and I eyed the overall dimensions of the car, and thought: "Too much motor, not enough car.."

 

Same here. And "sinking feeling of helplessness" is the perfect way to state it.

Sad that it happened, but from what I've heard from other instructors very familiar with the event, it's not run as rigorously as many other events, like our upcoming FCA National. And the Jefferson circuit is not the place to be messing around (not that any other track *is*….). Shenandoah, either (which is, I believe, what the pic on page one of this thread was….).

Unfortunate event…..

gp

 

Let's hope the FCA event at the track this weekend is problem free and everyone goes home safe and sound.

Very sad for the driver, the instructor, and their families. RIP.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

picture of the car involved. linked, as it ain't pretty.

http://www.your4state.com/media/lib/180/a/b/b/abb54fc5-7804-4944-9847-a259b3168c97/Original.jpg

RIP

 

In exactly the wrong spot.

CW