F12 offered to me at 50k over?

What would happen if Ferrari or another low-volume producer just did away with the whole concept of a "manufacturer's suggested retail price" and simply held an auction every month of its cars (or, more likely, delivery slots) to the highest bidders? It could pay third parties to provide the local servicing function.

 

Agree it's not perfect, but I'm driving an F12 right now and I didn't pay $750,000+ like you have to in some markets!

 

When I lived in London, there was a time that I drove down to Les Mans for the 24 hour race. I got to the tolls at the channel tunnel at about 10am and was told that because I hadn't booked, the next available slot was on the 5pm train. I spent about 10 minutes at the booth trying to talk my way on to the train, when at last the woman said "Well of course, if you book a first class spot at about twice the regular price you can go right away". I remember being grateful that it was just a matter of money as many times in life it's not just a matter of money. If you can afford it, IMHO a problem that can be solved with money is not really a problem. My point is that I only wish I always had the option of getting anything I wanted right away by paying a 10% premium. The car is worth more than msrp - that's a simple fact. "List price" is a meaningless concept if you can't walk into a dealer and pay list price. The illusion of paying the list price in 2 years time is just that, an illusion, as the dealer will find a way of extracting from you any difference between list and market value when the time comes. You only live once, if you can afford to buy a $400,000 car (that frankly no one needs as it's just for fun) then good for you and my recommendation is that you should just buy it and enjoy!

 

and PS the base price before options for the F12 in the UK is gbp240,000 which is $400,000 so the car is WAY more expensive in the UK as the average car has at least $50,000 of options, so maybe that explains why there is no premium in the secondary market in the UK, it's because Ferrari UK has already taken care of the premium in the list price.

 

I am in the same position. I am looking at a F12 at about 60,000.00 over msrp. I am "on the list" for a new one from a dealer at msrp but it will be well over a year. My way of looking at is that the 599 HGTE I have now will probably be worth 40k less in the probably 18 months when the new F12 arrives so I am not really paying 60K - just 20K and I get to have the car now. May be an odd way to look at it but it is my way. The reason I am hesitating is not the 60K but by waiting I get the car exactly the way I spec it.

 

why not just bid lower?

 

Good points fellas. I'm not so sure a 2010 HGTE will really lose 40k from today in a years time unless you are putting on huge miles. I'd just look at it as if you wanted the car now and the price doesn't upset you then there you go.

 

You're assuming you'll be able to sell at MSRP in a year.

 

Exactly -- they've probably been DK'd by another buyer so you are helping them deal with a problem they have, so I wouldn't by shy about negotiating. They'll have to find another buyer for the car you ordered, so not sure I'd go below MSRP, but think there's a good argument that the "early delivery" premium should be de minimis. If you offer them the prospect of a quick cash sale, you never know. And I noticed you have a lot of cars -- the pricing will be even better, no doubt, if you offer to buy both F12s!

 

From recent experience, I'll just say that if they called you up, that essentially means they couldn't find any bigger suckers higher up on their list to take the car at the price they're offering it to you.

If you don't have to have the car right away, offer them list. They'll say no, call a few more people down their own list, and if nobody bites, they'll give it to you.

If you must have the car right away, then you have no negotiating leverage and there's no point in asking what the market value is for the car, since you'll be setting it.

Keep in mind they probably started with the folks last on the waitlist and worked their way up. Anybody they call after you probably has an even lower likelihood of taking the car at the offer price since each one is a few months earlier on the waitlist.

 

I'm confused Chet! I didn't say anything about selling in a year. I said I will only have to pay msrp for the F12 when it arrives.

 

At the end of the day you have to love the car.... If you really love the car, and don't see a car as an investment/a way to earn money, I don't see the problem to spend a little more than MSRP if need be... At the end of the day it is your money and if you feel comfortable paying X amount for a car, I say do it. You only live once!

 

This... what is your time worth?! If you want it now and you can afford it it's negligible over the 5 year depreciation curve.

 

Luv this quote! Comes in really handy for some business issues. Thank you so much Mark!!

 

I paid about $40k over MSRP for my 2012 Spider with 851 miles. the color was perfect. it had more options than I would have picked but nothing was missing that I wanted.

Glad I did. Ferrari of Denver has a black/black 2013 Spider with an asking price higher than what I paid. It has over 2500 miles on it. the colors aren't right and my 360 Spider has depreciated since I made the trade.

Bottom line is: if you really love the car the money is not that important for something that is in essence a toy.

I did the numbers. If I ordered a new spider the wait at my dealer was 2-3 years. Meanwhile the 360 would depreciate and the maintenance (like a belt change) would just keep adding up. And the MSRP would keep rising over the 2-3 years...faster than bank interest. So it was pretty much a push. In the meantime I have had 14k miles of pure enjoyment. And as a geezeer, who knows how many years I have left to drive. With a $40k premium and 14k miles it works out to $2.86/mi. this will go down as I continue to drive this number will fall. Carpe dium.

BTW I am putting 7k miles a year on the 458 vs 2500 a year on the 360. the car is just so much fun to drive I just cannot not drive it.

So far annual maintenance has been the only reason to make a trip to the dealer for service and repairs. Not so with the 360. The car is perfect for me. Worth every penny. Exceded my most optimistic expectations.

the F12 is a stunning car with performance second to none. If that melts your butter, GO FOR IT.

Nobody NEEDS an Fcar but they are addictive.

Best

 

I am confused with the mention that it is illegal for dealers to charge over sticker for a new car that has not been registered. I see it all the time from BMW, MB, and Audi ( to name a few) that will put a premium on a car if market dictates. For example when the new M5 came out they were charging 10k to 25k premium for the first cars since you would wait over 6 or more months to order one. I saw the same thing with the S5 from Audi when it first came out.
What I am missing here?

Having driven the Aventador at a track event for many laps, I would say it is not worth more than 300k IMO, and they are going for 450 to 500k all day long. I would much more prefer an F12. The fact that they usually cost less is a plus.

 

I think it's a Ferrari franchise agreement rule, not an actual law.

 

As I said before, that "rule" is very easily bypassed by dealers.
They don't sell with additional mark-up, they only "accept" a donation to their company's Motorsport division,etc, helpfully informing the buyer about desired size of such "donation".

 

Ferrari Other F12 F 12 | eBay

$30K over MSRP BIN, so possibly even less otherwise they wouldn't have "best offer."

 

yep, $36k over and as you say with the best offer. i think the $30k-40k over is current value for a new car with a few hundred miles. Also premium harder to get, even when new, on a car with huge option list simply because $ price of car is higher. 2014 base price is $315,888 for the car, handling fee (whatever that is) of $3,750 and tsmg fee (another mystery fee) of $1,750 so total is $321,888 so this car has over $82,000 of options if the guys is accurately stating the msrp - notice that he didn't show the sticker on the pics.
A car with 1,000-2,000 miles I'm going to say is 10-20 over at most.

My F12 is rapidly approaching 3,000 miles so probably one of the first F12s to be worth under msrp!

 

The car listed has 1351 miles. The price is of course a tad high, and there are a lot of options including luggage, but, really, if you just had to have it now, and love the color and spec, this is a really nice car. I have not had a chance to drive one yet but everyone I know who has driven the F12 just sings its praises. The consensus is its like the 599 was taken an order of magnitude better / mixed up with a 458. That sounds like a winning combination to me!

From their listing the options are:

 

I wouldn't pay over sticker. The novelty wears off quick, and charging over MSRP for mass produced cars is nuts, must be a north american thing.

 

Well in North America a bottle of Grey Goose vodka cost the equivalent of 50 euros, last time I was in Monaco, Grey Goose was 300 euros a bottle in Jimmy'z!
I'm going to say that supply and demand exists everywhere.
The market sets the price for everything that can be freely traded.
PS Monaco is awesome.

 

That's in a nightclub and those prices are pretty standard worldwide. NYC/Miami clubs 300+ a bottle is normal as well.

People have this wierd understanding of the market as if it were some type of magical overseerer that brings everything in perfect harmony because alchemist Newton and whig Adam Smith said so 300 years ago. At the end of the day its a transaction that occurs between 2 people, meaning without some morality you get exactly these situations where dealers are abusing MSRP's for selfish reasons, which end up being justified because "profit motive" drives all harmony in the marketplace. This leads to dealers playing these games... Throw all morality out of the window because supply/demand rules the economic universe like newtonian physics rule the physical one.

Why does Ferrari blacklist clients who attempt to quick flip models like LaFerrari to take advantage of the all powerful wisdom of the market and supply/demand?

They should start punishing dealers as well.

 

Others may have better info, but I think dealers do get punished and I think there are some rules around not selling a car unless it's 6 month old.

Actually I would rather not see the dealers be punished because otherwise all the secondary trading of any hot cars goes directly to non Ferrari dealers and I would rather buy my car from a Ferrari dealer rather than from some Joe's exotic vehicles IF I wanted to pay over list, which I fully accept not everyone would want to do. I agree in an ideal world no one would pay over list, but for a car that takes multiple years to buy at list, it's nice to have the option of having it now, if that is your thing. That must be better than having no option to buy it, I would think.