Instructor killed at Summit Point today

You talking about Pacific Raceways?

 

Sure sounds like a stuck throttle to me. Not a whole lot you can expect a novice to do if that's the case. Very sad for all involved.

 

Stuck throttle? Extremely unlikely. Throttles almost never stick, especially in a production car; almost never.

All those "unintended acceleration" stories and those evening news reports about some 90 year old driving right through the local 7-11 store are always the same. The driver is holding the throttle to the floor, most times (incorrectly) claiming to be pressing on the brakes.

WOT until the moment of collision perhaps. I wasn't there and it's impossible to say for sure, but if the throttle was truly wide open the whole time, it was most likely caused by the driver holding the accelerator pedal to the mat during his first fully out-of-control maneuver. Chances of a stuck throttle, ............... very slim.

 

The issue is the trees. That is the one factor in this crash that can easily be changed to prevent future deaths. People will do dumb things on a track. That is human nature. That is hard to change. Making the track safer is the key. John Fitch was a smart man.

Scott

 

agreed, the odds of this being mechanical failure are pretty low.

the odds of it being operator error (inexperienced driver, high powered car, end of the day, etc) are extremely high.

 

Production car yes, but just for arguements sake, we don't know if any of the engine mods or even the recent engine swap (rerouted cable due to supercharger getting kinked if not fly-by-wire) could have been a factor. I've had both fly by wire fail twice (on Pikes Peak and Dallenbach had big crash near start from stuck throttle of some sort) and once a modified carb linkage after months of driving flipped out getting on the DC Beltway. Car had twice the factory HP and sure was hairy till I finally shut it off. Agree he was on the throttle is more probable, just saying.

 

First time out there today, honestly never saw any trees... Concentrating.
Sad news indeed

 

Such a sad thread overall. Looks like an incident that did not have to happen. Personal rule is never do DE's where there is something to hit off track. Lucky to be in CA where we have so many desert tracks where the only thing you risk in a run off is filling your car up with dirt. Took an unexpected run in the infield once at Willow. Nothing to hit. Trees? Never see me on a track like that. I know I am an amateur.

Really hate to see this stuff on what have should have been a fun day at the track with friends. I suppose we will see this again. Just be careful out there guys. Accept the risks but know the limits or your equipment, the track and most of all your skill.

 

These kinds of events are sad for all concerned. As an instructor, I have had more times than I care to admit felt like my life was on the line with some of the students. As a result, a long time ago I decided to keep the student on a very short leash until they proved to me that they grasped the basics and they weren't a threat to themselves, others and especially me!

 

At Skip Barber, the instructors do not get in the car. They instead stand in the corners and have radios. Wise.

Dale

 

You have that right! Much better that way. No instructor I know can graph brake pressure or calculate throttle aggression, much less calculate percentage full throttle over a lap...

The technology exists to do a much better job than yelling at a student (or client) at 150+ mph and having them say "whaaat???" When they should be focused on the road...

I am spoiled. I work with people already well along and looking for tenths, not seconds.

Still, there has to be a better way. Ingegnare has it right, keep them on a REALLY tight leash, even after they demonstrate competence. Too many people lose their minds behind the wheel...

 

I think it would be sad to not have the instructor along giving instant tips for better lines, etc. In fact, when I do my DE's I am never alone in the car even if given the chance. I also do not see how an instructor can coach you from outside the car on a 2 mile track. Maybe this works if your student is a professional or advanced club racer, but this is not what we were discussing. The OP is about an accident involving a neophite track driver.

Stay in the car, we'll behave, I promise.

 

There are a number of my friends and a few colleagues that ride right seat. That's their choice, and I am fine with that. It's just not my choice.

I am very familiar with HyperDrives, which are short, accompanied "tastes" of HPDE, a session of which THIS INCIDENT occurred. Hard to lay an intelligent and detailed enough foundation for responsible driving in thirty seconds of meet-and-greet at these events.

This is not even close to a DE...

 

Peter,
I was lucky enough to have you sign off on me when I joined VIR, riding in my 355 so that I could move to my Lola. I have always thought instructors were crazy. I remember a nice grass excursion in hog pen that day... and I am pretty conservative.

But you have said all that needs to be said here: "That's their choice."

I have certain risks that I am willing to take, and there are many I am not comfortable with. No one makes you show up, no one forces anyone on track, not drivers, not passengers. We all have to take responsibility for our own actions. And if there is one thing people sometimes fail to recognize, it is the long list of stuff they have absolutely no control over.

 

Just saw this thread and thought I give my two cents.

I spent almost 15 years instructing with various clubs and enjoyed every minute of it...right up until that day at Bridgehampton. My student (in a stock Porsche 944) was great all day...did as instructed, never put a wheel off....he just got a bit off line in the turn right after the main straight...and that was all it took. We slid in the marbles and sand and went off sideways at about 90 mph. Luckily, we scrubbed off a good amount of speed before the tires dug into the dirt and we rolled. It wasn't overly violent, and we were unhurt...but it was terrifying for me and I never instructed again...and never will. I have a lot of respect for someone who would knowingly put themselves at risk in order to help educate another enthusiast.