Would Massa have been any worse (or better) than Kimi?

By that measure all drivers are overrated.

There's 3 drivers to spring to immediate memory that can put a **** car where it doesn't belong:
Senna
Schumacher
Alonso

Vettel did the same with the Torro Rosso but hasn't shown it this year (partly due to consistent car failure) so I'll leave him off the list for now.

I think especially this year, it's very hit and miss with drivers. If the cars suits them, they'll look like superstars, if it doesn't they look like zeros. 3 world champions (of which 1 of them a quadruple champion) are quite simply looking like zeros.

 

Very true. We are seeing 'who' can actually adapt and drive the different forumla this year!

 

Push Alonso?

The man's gotten more from less since he joined the team.

 

You forgot the driver that belongs at the top of that list - Gilles Villeneuve.

 

Let's be honest here about Kimi:

Pretty much throughout his career, if his car hasn't been 100% to his liking then he has not been able to get results out of it in the way that Senna, Schumacher and Alonso could.

He's not quite as bad as Massa in a car that's not 100% right, but he does lose interest in trying to work round the issue.

It's as though his subconscious mind says: "If the car can't be bothered then I can't either!"

With Alonso, if the car's not working 100% then his subconscious mind seems to say: "You will do it! - Work you B:censored:h!"

 

Too true.
Signing Kimi over an up and commer was a lost opportunity.

 

Yep. Isn't it amazing that Ferrari hasn't had a decent car ever since Alonso joined the team?


Alonso didn't get along with Hamilton, but they made each other go quicker.
Hamilton and Nico competing has nothing to do with Mercedes staying ahead of the other Mercedes powered cars?

Ferrari won in 2007, nearly won in 2008 (largely pit wall issues after losing Braun and Todt), did mediocre in a pig of a car in 2009 (until they had to put someone else in Massa's seat) and hasn't won squat since Alonso came on board.

Hasn't even been in contention since Alonso didn't have to fight to beat his teammate.

So: who's doing car development for Ferrari?

 

I've been rethinking the whole "Alonso's team" thing.
Its Luca's team. He wants Ferrari to be an Italian operation and getting rid of Michael, Todt, Brawn and the rest is what's hurt them.

 

You might want to watch re-runs of the entire 2010 season (or look up the definition of "contention")

 

I wouldn't say taking the drivers' title down to the last race in 2010 constitutes not being in contention. That loss I chalk up to pit wall strategy in following Webber's pit strategy instead of looking at Finger Boy creeping up on both of them. (And then getting stuck behind Petrov, but that's another discussion.)

But having said that, the cars since then have been pretty much dogs. Alonso has been able to squeeze more out if those dogs than perhaps any other current driver could have done.

But it is a fair question to ask why the development hasn't been better given the caliber and experience of the drivers on board.

 

With the test restrictions the drivers have a much smaller part in development these days.

 

Smaller, yes. But not eliminated.

 

+1

It simply takes a whole lot longer than before.

James Allison and co are also hugely restricted in what they're allowed to do (why this is absolutely baffles me, and who in the **** will even block this. Although the who is probably Luca).

 

Until recently it's all come from Luca.
But Mattiachi was forced on him by Fiat so maybe there's hope.

 

Fingers crossed.

 

Sometimes I wonder if Luca's fixation of a traditional Italian team is just to build on the mystique so as too sell road cars. It certainly isn't improving the Scuderia.

 

I think Luca understands perfectly well that a winning F1 team sells more cars than a mystical one.

 

You'd hope so but the facts don't support that case.

 

Apparently they capped car sales at 7500 or whatever. They'll have no problem selling them at all, win or lose with F1.

Back in the mid 2000s Luca decided he wanted to make the team all italian/latino because his enormous ego couldn't handle a tiny frenchman, a brit and a german doing incredible at his team and that he wasn't getting all the credit. A thoroughly developed 2006 car as a base for 2007/08 helped them fight for the title but it hasn't worked out. I have no doubt that had the brawn/Todt team stayed, they'd have 2008, 2010 and 2012 trophies in their cabinet still, irregardless if their drivers where Kimi, Schumacher, Alonso or Massa. Some might have wrapped it up quicker than the other but the end result would've been the same.

L di Egomaniac couldn't handle not getting recognized so he decided to break up the most succesful team combination there ever was.

He should stick to selling cars or something or other, whatever structure he dreamed up when he got Ferrari out of the **** in the early 90s. He's rather good at that. He doesn't need to stick his beak in at F1.

 

and there you are, sitting behind your laptop, knowing it all better than the president of Ferrari. Some people are just...well...nevermind.

 

The production cap may or may not be of choice. Sales in nonUS markets aren't what they once were.
As for the rest I agree.
I recommend the Mark Hughes piece in the current Motorsport for a complete account of Ferraris F1 woes and Luca's role in creating them.