360 Spider 6-speed won't go in to gear when car gets hot. | FerrariChat

360 Spider 6-speed won't go in to gear when car gets hot.

Discussion in '360/430' started by nsortor12, Jun 26, 2014.

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  1. nsortor12

    nsortor12 Formula Junior

    Feb 1, 2013
    436
    Louisville
    #1 nsortor12, Jun 26, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2014
    I made a similar thread back in August when I was having an issue with fifth gear and fifth gear alone (a minor issue) that would only take place if the car was really hot after being driven for a few hours or so.

    Now, my problem as quadrupled. When the car is cold, it shifts perfectly fine apart from a bit of difficulty putting it in to 1st because of a synchronization issue, I presume, but the gear works just fine after a little nudge into the gear. No issue there.

    But when the car heats up, my issue quadruples. After being driven for just a FEW miles in 90º weather, the car refuses to go into most of the gears. It'll grind and/or slip out in 1st, second is okay (usually use this to start off when 1st won't cooperate) and third gear sometimes does the same thing (grinding and slipping) but fifth absolutely horrible because if the other gears stop engaging properly, don't even try fifth because it won't work whatsoever -- just grinds.

    The car has to be absolutely FORCED into reverse if the car gets too hot. Worst gear by far.

    Everything on the bottom row seems to work fine (2nd, 4th, 6th) and I'm supposed to be driving the car on a 4 hour trip next month and if I can't trust it for a few miles there's no way I can trust it hundreds of miles.

    Any ideas of what it could be? Hopefully not too expensive.

    Nick
     
  2. Mozella

    Mozella Formula Junior

    Mar 24, 2013
    905
    Piemonte, Italia
    Full disclosure: I am not a Ferrari transmission specialist; however, I have some idea about how these things work.

    If you can select 2nd, 4th, and 6th, but not 1st, 3rd, and 5th, I would check the shift linkage first. I'm guessing (with the emphasis on the word guess) it could be fixed with an adjustment.

    Not to say it will be cheap, exactly, because saying hello to a qualified Ferrari mechanic results in a hefty charge. But if it is indeed an adjustment, that will be WAY less expensive than opening up your transmission. Trouble is, I suspect you'll need a pretty good independent mechanic or a real Ferrari guy to have any hope of getting this right the first time.

    Good luck and report back please.
     
  3. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    What I would do.. is start simple and then go complex.

    1) Did you flush the brake fluid out of the clutch line? If not start here. Might have some bubbles in the line that are affecting things / old fluid.
    1a) Master cylinder? Slave cylinder? - any leakage at the inspection port?
    2) Shift cables, moving fine?
    3) Linkage adjustment. Check at the shift lever in the cabin and then at the tranny.
    4) Transmission shift forks.
     
  4. SoftwareDrone

    SoftwareDrone F1 Veteran
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    Jan 19, 2004
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    When my plastic shifter bushing would crack, I would start to get these symptoms.
     
  5. English Rebel

    English Rebel Formula 3

    Aug 13, 2013
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    Doesn't Hill Engineering make a more robust part for this? If that is the issue I would certainly install one of those.
    Alan
     
  6. blackbolt22

    blackbolt22 F1 Veteran

    Sep 25, 2007
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    Mr. Anderson
    You are correct. I had similar problems. I replaced the reverse gear bushing and its fine now. The bushing is a cheap piece of plastic and is the same part as 430. It was a mangled mess when it was replaced. I could barely get the car into any gear and definitely worse when hot.

    I would order the part and take it to the mechanic right away. I would have them replace the bushing anyway with the Hill part. You may have a few problems .
     
  7. nsortor12

    nsortor12 Formula Junior

    Feb 1, 2013
    436
    Louisville
    Thanks for the tips guys! I will definitely check out the bushing. What's required to actually get to it?
     
  8. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n Two Time F1 World Champ
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  9. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

    Jun 14, 2009
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    I’d definitely bleed the clutch circuit to start with. Careful with the torque on the bleed nipple though, it’s easy to crack the block it screws into and that will leave you stranded waiting for a replacement.

    When was the tranny oil last changed? Perhaps it’s well overdue?
     
  10. thoang

    thoang Formula 3
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    Apr 12, 2004
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    Tuan Hoang
    Had a problem with mine going to 5th & 6th when hot until I replaced my bushing.
     
  11. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    #11 vrsurgeon, Jun 27, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Two bushings to replace when you go in there.

    #6 if you haven't done it..

    and

    #14. This bushing has been known to crack and cause shifting issues in the higher gears.

    I was able to replace both with #1 still in the car.

    Though I'm at a loss why it would occur only when the car is hot..
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  12. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

    Jun 14, 2009
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    Seems the me the bushing failure is more often associated with difficulty performing high RPM shifts.
     
  13. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Agreed and my experience as well. When I replaced mine the shifts improved.. I had the tough to get into 6th gear occasionally. But while hot it gets worse... that's interesting.
     
  14. nsortor12

    nsortor12 Formula Junior

    Feb 1, 2013
    436
    Louisville
    #14 nsortor12, Jun 29, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2014
    Yeah that boggles my mind too. Any idea what the part numbers of the bushing are on Ricambi? I'll be taking a look under the center console today.

    Edit: I found number 6 (174967). Is number 14 different of do I just buy two of the same bushing? Either way, it's expensive! Haha

    Probably is well overdue. Haven't changed it since I've owned it and we're coming up on a year now in August.
     
  15. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Dude all those stupid little bits of plastic are overpriced.

    #14 is different than #6. #6 is the infamous hill engineering bushing that cracks when made of plastic. #4 is a little hollow black cube that fits on the end of the metal rod that goes through the shift lever. The reason I replaced it, was that #14 when it cracks, the side to side (left right) motion of the stick gets wobbly and imprecise. So #15 doesn't move as precisely as it should.. thus the issues with shifting to the higher gears. I learned of its potential cracking with a 360 owner in China that had problems with shifting into 6th from 5th. If you're going to do it, you might as well do both. Now, the shift lever is firm and tight! :)
     
  16. nsortor12

    nsortor12 Formula Junior

    Feb 1, 2013
    436
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    #16 nsortor12, Jul 8, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  17. nsortor12

    nsortor12 Formula Junior

    Feb 1, 2013
    436
    Louisville
    #17 nsortor12, Jul 11, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    It's about midnight and I've just gotten done replacing my bushing. Haven't driven the car yet, but the shifter is showing so much less resistance and it goes in to gear so much easier! It also returns to the middle of the gate now.

    I'll let you guys know how the car drives in the morning. So far, it's looking great!! Amazing how much difference a little piece of plastic (in this case, metal) can make!
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  18. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2008
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    Nick- Good job. That is right where the lever should be in neutral on any gated 6 speed Ferrari.
     
  19. nsortor12

    nsortor12 Formula Junior

    Feb 1, 2013
    436
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    #19 nsortor12, Jul 12, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2014
    Ok time for an update. Synchronization is better and the gear lever goes into the middle when in neutral, but gears 1,3,5 still grind and slip out when the car is hot but not until I let the clutch out.

    When I'm having to shift a lot (say in traffic) the shift level doesn't want to move side to side at some points so I can't even get the car in to gear. Other times it'll go over just fine.

    I'm guessing at this point there's a linkage issue and something needs to be adjusted. Sound about right?

    Thanks Taz. It was relatively frustrating but it works nonetheless lol.
     
  20. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    If you replaced both the (#6 )metal bushing and the little square bushing (#14).. then it's time to work down the line. Now its cables.. thinking specifically the forward motion of the right cable to which the ball attaches #63. Is the cable or it attachment loose in any location? Such that when you put the lever forward the cable doesn't move. If you jiggle the cable in the engine bay, does it move? Is any of the heat insulation (silver) in the engine bay missing?

    You did a good job with the installation!
     
  21. nsortor12

    nsortor12 Formula Junior

    Feb 1, 2013
    436
    Louisville
    I'll be checking all of this out later today. I just put the car away so once it cools down I'll get back to working on it. How would I know if the cable needs to be adjusted right below the shifter itself or under the rear bumper? Or would it even make a difference?

    Thanks!
     
  22. nsortor12

    nsortor12 Formula Junior

    Feb 1, 2013
    436
    Louisville
    Going to be messing with linkages under the car today tweaking it just a bit. I'll adjust the upper cable (moves the level forward and backward) and then side to side.

    I'm guessing that I need to extend the cable's connector (by only millimeters of course) because when I push the gear lever forward when the car's really hot it feels as if I'm hitting a wall so the gear's not going all the way in causing it to grind and/or slip out which is why I'm thinking it has something to do with the cable not being able to stretch far enough.

    Remember it's only gears 1,3,5. Everything else is fine.
     
  23. nsortor12

    nsortor12 Formula Junior

    Feb 1, 2013
    436
    Louisville
    Alright, I think I've found the root of the problem. Where the cables meet the transmission, there seems to be a rubber bushing that seems to over-stretch which doesn't allow the car to go follow in gear. Keep in mind the car is completely cold at this point and the gear changes get 1000x worse as the car heats up which would also mean that the piece that is stretching and not allowing the car to go fully into gear heats up and expands even more than it already does causing the gearbox not to move all the way into the selected view.

    Incase this is confusing, I've attached a video of myself moving the gear lever from third into fourth and a few times showing the movement and stretchiness of the bushing or whatever the rubber-esque bushing piece is attached to the linkage going in to the gearbox itself.

    If anybody would know whether or not this is the issue please let me know so I can get the part on order! And what would be even better is if you by chance know where I can buy it, lol

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BobK1wQAbzE

    Thanks!
    Nick
     
  24. nsortor12

    nsortor12 Formula Junior

    Feb 1, 2013
    436
    Louisville
  25. DANCER308

    DANCER308 Formula Junior

    Oct 24, 2009
    935
    KY
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    #25 DANCER308, Jul 13, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2014
    Nick, I think you are right. The bushing is collapsing when pushing the shifter forward and not allowing the tranny to fully engage. Good find! I can't tell from the diagram if that is the correct part, maybe someone with personal experience could chime in here.

    Dan
     

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