F1 Trans

Terry, when you say "motronic". Is this the piece inconjunction with the engine ECU to allow spark and fuel inorder for the engine to run?

 

Mike- Motronic is the Bosch trademarked name for the injection/ignition computers. The 360 uses Motronic 7.3 and the F430 uses Motronic 7.1.1. Those are the engine ECUs, also called DMEs (Digital Motronic ECUs) that talk through the CAN (controller area network) to the other ECUs in Ferraris and other cars using the Bosch DMEs.

You can download a 360 workshop manual for free from ferraridatabase.com. The Spider WSM is the latest and also covers the Modena. It has a pretty good explanation of the injection/ignition system.

 

My wife and I left the restaurant after a good meal. Went to unlock the car and opened the driver side door. Dead silence. The F1 pump wasn't running. I then removed the access cover to the F1 pump relay and tapped it with the head of a screwdriver. Pump ran. I reseated the relay and headed straight home. I'm going to do an autopsy on the relay. The 360 isn't going anywhere until I figured this out.

 

Steve- If I were you, I would replace that relay with an upgraded one. She probably has a Tyco V23134-B57-X203, a 30 amp relay. There are upgraded 30 amp relays, V23134-B57-X152, and, even better, V23134-B57-X266, that will pretty much eliminate that problem. If the relay is sticking, it may be on its last legs and what eventually may happen is the contacts fuse and that will cause the pump to run continuously and burn out quickly.

The X152 relay is availabe as a BMW part for less than $20 online. Part number is 61361393403. The X266 is available for around $55 from Juri on E-Bay.

 

Thanks for the info Terry. This is the last straw. I need to do some creative thinking to fix this once and for all.

 

Well Mr. Terry, last year when they were selecting F-Chatter of the year you got a lot of press but I was like, "Who is that guy?" Now I know better! you get down with your bad cross reference relay self!! Great stuff!

 

I purchased the X152 from my local BMW dealer for $16.95. Will this also stop the contacts fusing or should I have got the X266?
I am amazed that Ferrari monitor the brake light current draw for the TCU. After all the only function that the TCU should look at is whether the brake pedal is being pressed while engaging first gear from neutral. That should be a simple switch -- but no, the brake pedal switch has only one set of contacts to turn on the brake lights. So Ferrari in their infinite wisdom decides to monitor the current draw instead of using a dual contact switch.
Alan

 

How long were you guys in the restaurant for? If the pressure is holding all this time and not reach 600psi by the time you get back to the car, then the pump will not run, right?
While you tap on the relay and the pump ran, yes, it is suspectable that the relay is having a "cold", but could it also be a coeincedent, just so happen the pressure reaches at low point while your were tapping it?...
Would you like to come up with a system like the one I just did? I would be more then happy to assist you.
At this point in time, the F1 system had gotten on my bad side. Sorry to be so negative, but for my usage, it is more trouble then enjoyment. lol...

 

Alan- X152 will work fine and changing it at every belt change would probably be good insurance at $16 each. For the X266, every other belt change would probably be overkill. Mine was changed to X266 about three years ago and I am not even worried about it.

Kevin- That was as big a surprise to me as to everyone else.

Mike- Entirely possible she still had pressure. Not sure how the system is programmed to operate in that case. Easy to check.

 

Oh boy this F1 stuff just getting better and better.
So, this even I got in my car and experienced the same symptom as Steve. Pulled up on the door handle(xterior door handle), did not hear the pump ran!!! looked at my LED gauge and confirm no signal from TCU. Also, confirm; Pressure at 0psi. The last time the pump ran was two days ago when I played and replaced all the tail/brake light bulbs.
All of the little mysterious things the car had been doing, I feel there is something going on with my TCU. I think its have a cold...LOL

On the side note, HERE IS ANOTHER FUN FACT....Without the key in the ignition, without your foot on any of the pedals, when F1 pressure is below 600psi, push the HAZARD LIGHT BUTTON on the midconsole(the EMERGENCY flasher button), the F1 pump wiLL run....Why? I don't know!!!, anyone here know? or is this another "FERRARISM"...HEHEHEHE

 

After reading posting #58 I started to believe you. Now this? LOL!
I would check the TCU connector. I have experienced it being partially disconnected due to me messing around with the wirings and relays within that area. The TCU connector latch isn't very secure and can easily become unlatched. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you Mike.

I don't have any good news to report on my end. If I can find some time tomorrow, I'm going to disassemble the F1 pump relay to take a closer look.

 

Thanks Steve, hope you find something and give us a follow up.
Driving to work this morning. I thought I should do some extra work prior jump the gun. I will measure the resistance on the F1 pressure switch with pressure is deplete and measure it again when pressurize at point signal to shut off the signal. I will wait till the problem act up then take the measurement while it the system fail.

My thought is, what if the pressure sensor is acting up and give the TCU wrong signal(at point of pressure when it's actually not). Engine oil pressure switch failed on this car as we know it, so, what to say that this switch cannot fail, right?

I don't mind bring the car to the dealership to have them take a look, but I fear, they will come back to say "cannot duplicate issue concern", because it is intermitten and the posibility of failure component(s) is very broad.

In my personal perspect, If I have to change out the TCU for $2700(if that is the issue). I want to spend 4-5k to do a manual 6speed swap...LOL..what do you guys think???

 

Thank you and will check to see this weekend. Regardless, it still seem pretty challenging for me...

 

Do we have anyone work at Ferrari dealership or x-ferrari employee in the house?

 

I do not think it is a pressure sensor. It's probably a pressure switch which is calibrated to make contact below x PSI and break contact at x PSI. If that's the case, you should be able to test the continuity with a multimeter.

 

I have disassembled the F1 pump relay and came to a startling conclusion. I believe the picture will speaks for itself. I rummaged through my junk pile and found two solid state relays. One DC-to-AC and the other is a DC-to-DC type. The spec on the DC-to-DC (left on the photo) looks promising and falls within the electrical parameters of the F1 pump operation. I'm going to see if I can make use of it.
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Yes, that's what I meant. Sorry to use wrong terminology. Yes, its the pressure switch is what I meant.
Steve, I will do that tonight. Do you have a value reading? or what pins to measure? that would be great if you have, if not then I can fiddle around with it and do it blind fold.

Oh, eversince the last time I reported this issue, I notice my pump stop running at 750psi, I use to be 800psi. By spec max at 870psi from repair manual which is about 60bar.

 

OOoooh solid state. Good idea!

 

Hey Curt. How are you, and where have you been? You are missing out on all the fun!!!lol.
I am not sure if you are being funny for saying that or giving a compliment. I guess that's because I have not yet fully understand the difference between a conventional relay and a solid state relay? and what are to pros and con?

 

I'm glad my biggest worry with the 6 spd manual is the linkage fork wearing out!!

 

I think you actually come out ahead even if the swap costs you 8-9K
Keep all the old F-1 stuff in a box for the next buyer IMO

 

So, this evening. The car didn't act up like yesterday... with drive side door window already down from yesterday. I woke up the gauge and took note at 400psi. I pulled up on the driver side exterior handle and the pump ran to 600psi then stop. I was playing inside the car n got distracted with another fiddling(removed all the sticky stuff on the switches, now its all shinny black, no more sticky!!!) after I played inside the car, I notice the pressure drop to about 500psi, I pushed the "emergency flasher button" the pump ran, got the pressure up to 600psi then stop. Now at this point, If I insert the key and turn it on, then it will run to 800psi then stop.

I have not have chance to measure the pressure switch resistance because the system is not acting up...
I really hate this intermitten issue. ahhhhhh! driving me nuts, because I am nervous to take the car out.

 

Anyone have any solutions my 360 F1 is stuck in 3 rd gear
Will not shift and can't hear pump come on
I check the 50 fuse it's good Also car will not start in 3rd had to tow it
Any suggestions It seems like a power thing as you hear nothing
And nothing happens
Thanks
Normcars
2001 Ferrari 360 F1

 

All you are doing is measuring irrelevant pressure readings. Perhaps you should just pay somebody who knows how to fix your issues?

 

it's worth taking a look at the f1 pump relay as I have posted earlier. If you're mechanically challenged, take it to your ferr mechanic.