Sad Day?

I'm with you on this... Some is just knowing cars. A guy was asking about clutch slip with a fairly new clutch. Consensus is the pressure plate is getting old. Every manual car I've owned when I changed a clutch I put in a new pressure plate and throw out bearing.
When I was young I went with my friend to a honda dealership because his clutch was slipping. I said Chris when there in there have them put in a new P Plate and throw out bearing. Guy at shop says why replace stuff that isnt broke. I replied its stupid to open this up and not make it bullet proof for another 100,000 miles. He said I think its stupid to fix something that isnt broken yet. Rolled my eyes thinking what a ****** bag.
The guy that had just the clutch replaced wishes they would have done it right the first time. It shouldnt cost a penny more in labor to do it right.....but now hes going to pay for labor again to open it back up and fix it. I will do some research when I get there and if these flywheels can be resurfaced I will do that and replace any other wear parts and seals bolt it back up and not worry about it.
I understand being pro active like Jimmy, I used the DIY on here to make my top manual even though I never put it up. The headers are a potential problem. So this winter I will do some research if putting cat bypass pipes on will let enough heat out to run OEM. If not will throw on a pair of aftermarket headers with bypass pipes and problem solved.
After that other than a catastrophic failure it should be somewhat bullet proof. If proves not to be I wont cry about it just roll up my sleeves and go to work.
My friend that has a multimillion dollar shop and I talk about this car often...He's like Randy dont buy into if it needs valve job and guides only some guru in San Francisco can do it..Sure people rave about him and he most likely does great work. How many of those people had it done at another shop also to compare? None. We have high end shops around here that build $100k race engines. You think they cant put valve guides in a 355?
He's right. I will do the next engine out service at his shop. He said bring it in I will have one of my guys help you just pay his hourly rate. You dont have to pay shop rate just what he makes an hour. If I did get stumped I have a friend here that tore down his 993 TT on a whim. Rebuilt the trans and lower end with the best porsche racing parts. Built his own intake manifold put a blower on it fabricated a electronic clutch so he could adjust the boost on the dash tweeked the ecu himself and ended up with a 850HP street monster. I'm sure he can check our work and cam timing or do it for me.. If I read to much stuff on this forum I get the impression you have to pack mule your car up a mountain where in a cave an old man lives that is the only person left that knows the ancient art of turning a wrench on a Ferrari.. seriously? its a car.
I really found this thread interesting because I dont think its smart to pour $20k into a $60k car that will be worth $55k next year. I really wanted some hard numbers to research other options in case I had the same problems ever. All this bickering and unsubstantiated theory is making my head hurt. Drew offer still stands if your ever in the area I know a good bar a cpl hours drive from here. You drive my car for old times sake and I'll have too many beers because I dont have to drive...end rant

 

My well known independent said essentially the same thing. He gets Ferrari parts because he's covered and in turn his owner (including me) are covered in case of a parts malfunction. I'm sure they happen. I was trying to relay to Randy why service is so much on these cars. Ferrari Tax, cost of entry, etc...it is all the same thing. If you want one of these cars you have to be prepared to deal with all the idiosyncrasies. Like you I bang my head against the wall with some stuff but I love the cars so in the end it is worth it.

 

I understand what you were saying and I agree with you..my car is nothing but a loss of good money that could be used smarter...But I love this car and driving it. I swear even my wife looks better when she is riding in it

 

Very well stated.

 

I wish my wife "got it." she looks better in it and enjoys the special attention parking up front at restaurants but she walks by $20 million dollar GTOs at Cavallino and thinks of them as old sports cars.

 

Trouble is, many people have too much into the car to call it quits. When you have invested x number of dollars into something it's hard to say "stop! that's it I've had it".
When you have spent the amount it's cost on repairs equal to the price of the car, it's hard just to throw that money away. It's always " this is the last time" or maybe it will be fine after this" etc. it's a trap we all fall into. Weather it be a house, car, girlfriend etc..we all sometimes keep spending hoping for a better outcome in the end. But in the end, we end up spending too much on an object that just it's worth it.

 

A bit late to the party, but to add to the data points, I was in the exact same position as Drew and came to the same conclusion. I bought a late '99 355F1 B with 11k miles from a Ferrari dealership that had just done a major on it. After 8 years, another 42k miles, and $67k in bills, I had enough and basically gave it away to get it out of my life. You could probably say $10k of that was discretionary, but the rest was a simple matter of regular maintenance and things breaking, often repeatedly. And before anyone thinks I was taking it to the local Jiffy Lube for service, you should know I used one of the most respected independents in the business. Oddly enough their thought process was similar to mine.. "355 is my favorite Ferrari, but I'd never own one."

Anyone who says their 355 has been reliable as a Toyota and cheap to own most likely hasn't owned it very long or put many miles on it. I had all of the records going back to the day it was sold and was friends with the previous owner, so I knew its history. Up until about 22k miles and my first year or two of ownership, there were only a few hundred dollars worth of service. I see a lot of posts in the 355 section that fall into that category of "owned the car for a two years and put 4000 miles on it with no problems" and have to shake my head. Once the floodgates open, it's pretty brutal. I'm sure there are some people who have had great experiences with their 355s, but I've heard horror stories from a bunch of guys who aren't on the forum and know that many of the guys on the forum do have horror stories that they simply don't share.

Ultimately what did it for me was knowing that I was repeatedly spending 20-30% of the car's value in single visits to the shop, which is complete insanity. Like a few other guys here, I ended up switching to a 911 and never looked back. If I had FU money I'd be in another 355 tomorrow, but until that happens I'll stick with cars that actually work.

 

So, I keep seeing requests for Drew and me to post our receipts to validate our claims of high repair/maintenance costs. Don't know about Drew, but I don't feel like figuring out how to attach a 3/4 inch full folder of receipts just to satisfy you skeptics. But I will say this, I am not a stickler for OEM and have never taken my car to the dealership. I go with what I believe the best solution for a problem is, which may be Ferrari parts or may be aftermarket parts, and I have used exclusively an independent Ferrari-only mechanic with decades of experience. So I am not wasting money on my car just because I can afford it.

Some highlights of my car:

Major service at 14k miles (including replacing bad motor mounts, new water pump, etc)
Major service at 37k miles (including motor mounts again, rebuild water pump, GCK, injector cleaning, new O2 sensors)
replaced faulty HVAC ecu (new, could not find used)
replaced faulty Motronic with used
brake squeal fixed by turning rotors and replacing pads
360 F1 pump, plus Hill adaptor and serious fabrication to make it all work
F1 actuator (this is my current headache) and another 360 pump (1st one burned up dealing with the actuator headache)
Fabspeed headers and cats
replace failed ignition switch (I did this myself, but still have to buy parts at the dealer and have the switch re-keyed)
clutch due to slave cylinder leak, plus pp/tob/flywheel
axle boots
alternator 3 times (did the last 2 myself, because I was feeling this was a realistic task I could tackle)
LH radiator fan
battery 3 times, coinciding with the above
found out the car won't pass smog with the Fabspeed cats, so needed to swap cats for the last smog check, then swap them back to avoid disintegrating cat ruining my engine
repair F1 display 2 (maybe 3, can't even remember now) times-- currently has missing elements again
etc, etc

All this is from the top of my head. As I said, I have a huge stack of receipts to impress the next owner at sale time. I'm sure there is more that I am missing here, but it's probably for the best that I don't go dig up that folder 'til it's time to show the car. (But it will need to be drivable to do that.) I never spent dollars on frivolous repairs. I did the sticky stuff myself, for instance. But I did do the maintenance that was required for the car. And I did do the preventative things that our sacred forum seems to think that skipping will lead to disaster. Still have pulling leather on the dash and the pod. Still have mediocre paint. But my car actually is a great driver. When I was able to drive it, that is. Past 4 months, no pleasure return on my expenditures. I found out that is how long it takes to come to the realization that like Drew, I'm done.

Before you guys categorize me as a dispassionate owner flirting with the breed, not true at all. Been to racing school many times, currently run a Rotax kart, so I know how to drive better than the average person out there. I have been a Tifosi for decades, been a fan since age 14, and the very image of a 355 is what helped me to make it through residency after medical school (was a Testarossa during school, but then I saw the 355). So, while I can afford a 458, I wanted the 355 because it had significance to me on a personal level. And I must say, the car delivers in terms of the driving experience. But it's time to let the next guy enjoy this experience. I've had enough.

 

Sell out!!

j/k, I don't blame you man.

 

Hate to say it but that is a very familiar list.

 

I do see the F1 guys having a lot more problems...I really like the idea and want one but 6sp manual is so much more reliable and easier to diagnose and fix...

 

You gosh, is the 355 about to become the ferrari bastard child everyone loves to love but refuses to own? Sounds like a poster of one is the best way to eyeball one.

I swear I must be the luckiest person in the world with this 308. I've never really had much I've 'had' to do to the car. It's always just worked and I've only ever done things that I felt it was time to do out of age/mileage.

 

want to trade it for my super low maint well sorted reliable 355?

 

Sounds to me like a prime "defective product" class action suit.

 

Did it fail CA visual, or are you saying that Fabspeed cats failed the sniffer while disintegrating stock cats passed the sniffer?

 

I've seen quite a few that fail the tail pipe test after not too many miles on good clean cars.

Its why I quit installing them.

They also are failing visual more and more ofen as inspectors are getting the screws put to them for visual inspections.

 

The latter. Found that 2 different shops didn't catch the Fabspeed cats and passed it on visual inspection. Only to have it fail on sniff test, but just barely. Second shop was friendly, and was willing to try to see if it would pass since it was SO close. Then when it blew over the limit, and the screen went red, they aborted the test. When I switched the cats back to the stock (but disintegrating--you can shake dust out of one of them) cats it was an easy pass. Only difficult thing was ponying up to switch cats back and forth twice in a day, and the worry about driving it 10 miles with a bad cat.

As an aside, took my daughter's 2001 Miata with 128k miles to the smog station today, and it's just a visual and OBD2 inspection. No sniffer needed.

Don't get me wrong, guys, I don't hate the car entirely. I have to say, when the car is running it 100% lives up to the promise of what the looks and sound suggest. The delicate feel of the wheel with great feedback. The sound when the bypass valve opens up, when the shreik overlays the howl. The powerband up at 6-8,500rpm. The cornering balance. It's just that the bills eventually overtake the experience, especially when it's been some time since I have been able to drive it.

I think these cars are best the first couple years of ownership, before the hard feelings set in. And yes, probably could have avoided some of my grief had I gone 6 speed instead of F1. But the whole allure of the paddles like Michael drove was too hard to resist...

 

In the Airplane World we call maintenance heavy aircraft "Hanger-Queens".

I owned a 355 for 5 years and put almost 30,000 miles on it. It was 5-speed coupe. I enjoyed the car, but the previous owner had invoices around $25K. Valves mostly. Not headers. I could upload the redacted invoices if their is interest.

I added $10K to that for non-cosmetics. It wouldn't be a stretch to label them "Garage-Queens"

The Plane I owned that got the Hanger-Queen reputation was a Beechcraft Duke. A great looking, high performance plane that was cutting edge and had a lot of things that could go wrong. Sound familiar?

I still think the 355 is one of the best looking V-8 Ferrari's. The 288GTO, F40 trump it of course. But that's good company

 

A friend of mine had an 86 TR. Very nice looking car. The car ended up with a blown motor and was out of commission. He just walked away from it. His opinion of Ferrari's in general is that they are more delicate and has not purchased another. Another friend of his couldn't get over what Ferrari wanted for the cost of one switch for the TR and the engine out service. He used to say to me nice car, but I would never buy one, because if you need a part, you have to go to Ferrari. "They got you". Where as with Porsche I don't need to go Porsche for the part.

 

Lots of truth. For the number of cars built not a lot of incentive for outside parts suppliers.

Its a crooked poker game and we fight for a seat at the table.

 

In spite of what happened to my friend's TR. I still like them a lot and would consider purchasing one. The 355 and TR(512TR) are still two of my favorite Ferrari's. The other two are the 288GTO and F40.

You are right that there isn't a lot of incentive for aftermarket suppliers given the numbers of cars built, even if the numbers seem large in the Ferrari world, in the grand scheme of things this is nothing compared to most car companies.

 

Sorry for hijack.. again..

Has anyone thought about using one of these in its place? (In green of course)
0 96" I2C IIC SPI Serial 128x64 OLED LCD LED Display Module for Arduino White | eBay

 

I think these cars are best the first couple years of ownership, before the hard feelings set in. And yes, probably could have avoided some of my grief had I gone 6 speed instead of F1. But the whole allure of the paddles like Michael drove was too hard to resist...[/QUOTE]

I understand I was pumped to get my e46 M3 with the SMG ... I had a love for the technology and it made me sound like I could shift like a pro. One downfall was the paddles moved with the steering wheel. When I was playing with the car I missed a shift once in awhile

 

Drew, sorry to hear that the ownership experience turned sour for you. I certainly would not be happy paying those kinds of costs for a car I own. It does not sound as good as a Ferrari (exhaust sounds, that is), but I would recommend a Lotus Elise / Exige to enjoy as a fairly reliable and still edgy sports car. I have not read any horror stories about maintenance on them, and the driving experience is universally praised.

Good luck in the future, and I hope the sadness goes away quickly.


BT