Who needs a pension when you have a 355??

Sorry I missed all the fun here today. Left the house at 8 am to play golf 75 miles north of me. The only passenger in the car was my golf clubs. Top down of course, drove a little silly on the parkway, gunned it in the underpasses ( we have quite a few of them on the garden state parkway and some are wide!). Tubi/hyperflows making music that you can only hear in a spider with the top down. Did I mention it was in the 80s ans sunny. Thumbs up and a few mini races here and there. Stopped for gas on the way home on the Turnpike and got a nod and wave from the State Trooper on duty. Some guy flew by me in a mustang convertible holding his phone and taking picture as he did....

This is what I paid for and it is awesome!

 

Bob, it doesn't get any better than that. Unfortunately I had to work.

 

Maybe some of us have devoted our lives to making children laugh and we take offence to others using the name clown in a derogatory sense. Just sayin

 

Albert,
Thank you for that clarification on this article. That was one of the first things I read about the car when I started my search. Since this ain't my first rodeo, I actually inferred that the "warning" was intended for the "unbaptized". Too many people think these are just good looking Toyotas, and if you have to spend over $1,500/year to maintain them, it is a scandal.
As far as this thread goes - If you come out even dollar wise in 3-5 years, you're doing well car wise, but horribly investment wise.

 

Your roads are incorrectly marked to use our cars....safely.

 

One can't because it is utterly untrue

The difference in on track performance between a 348 and 328 was far greater than the difference between a 355 and 348, more than double in fact in terms of time difference round Fiorano, and with a Ferrari, that's where it counts. When the 348 was about it was the first time that a V8 had been able to keep pace with a V12 (the Testarosssa) on a track.

The 355 was wholly based on the 348. Even the 355 aero is taken directly from the 348. There used to be tales of how the 355 was the first 'normal' V8 to be developed in a wind tunnel. That's only true if by 355 you mean in 348 form - the 348 was developed in the same wind tunnel that they used for the F40 and by the same team (I have the photos). If you think about it it's pretty obvious - the cars (348 and 355) are the same shape. Even the under floor aero for the 355 was in fact developed by Michelotto for the 348 Le Mans cars and taken directly from them. If they spent all those hours in the wind tunnel on the 355 rather than the 348 then it's a shame the only new 'innovation' they came up with was a 'kick up' un the rear of the engine cover.

The suspension was a development of the suspension on the Mondial T. The 348 engine is effectively 'starved' of air in stock form (hence the high lift cams used in the race variants - you can still get them from Europe and put your power up to about on a par with most 355s at 365 bhp) so they put in the extra valves but the rest of the car is basically a development of the 348.

It's simply untrue by any measure to claim the 355 was the big jump forward. The biggest leap by far was when the 348 came on the scene.

That's not 'knocking' the 355 in any way shape or form, I love 'em, it's just factually correct. You could argue that they perfected the car with the 355, or you could prefer the slightly more raw 348. Either is valid, both are great cars

 

Best post yet!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

And here we go again.

Pete, you know I like you a lot and I can't wait to meet you in person next month.

BUT. This entire thread was supposed to be about 355s, and how they are appreciating in value.

It was NOT about another chance for the 348 owners to talk about how great their cars are, and why they are "better" than 355s. Yawn...

And you wonder why some 355 owners want their own area?
NOTE: I don't, but I see their point.

 

Sorry Steve, you totally misunderstand my point. It's not that I'm saying the 348 is better than the 355, I'm saying they are in essence the same car. Yes the vast majority of the development was on the 348, there's a far greater difference from 328 to 348 than from 348 to 355, but the 355 is a development of the 348, I love the 348 and therefore I love the 355. It was in direct response to a post about the 348 being hugely inferior to the 355 and THAT'S why the 355 is so special and will possibly therefore increase in value, I'm guessing that was the point of the post.

But that's not it. It won't increase in value because it was in any way a giant leap forward, it'll increase in value because it's a great car. It's a development of a car that was pretty good to start with but they took everything they had learned on the track with the 348, and in other models in terms of suspension etc, and incorporated that into the 355. And I think they did a great job.

Read it again. I'm saying the 355 is a great car, they took eveything they could to move the 348 forward and improve on it. Ok some of us like the quirks of the older model but that's in no way saying the 355 was not a development of it, an improvement if you like.

Like I said, read it again

 

This thread now sucks.

 

?

 

I just wanted to read a dag gone article and it's another 348/355 battle! Pathetic!

 

Thanks for your contribution.



Pete, I don't disagree with anything you've said.
My post history shows that I love the 348.

I just don't think this thread has anything to do with 348 v 355.
It was originally a thread about 355s only, yet for reasons known only to them, some 348 owners felt the need to inject their own negative point of view.

And like you were in the past, me and several other owners are getting sick of it.

 

Can we just get a snap shot of the article so they can close this thread!

 

Or, you could look it up.

 

Haaa, too lazy and this place is much more entertaining. Soooooo I wait.

 

+1

 

Apparently we are idiots and Steve355F1 says we should look it up. Hopefully I don't get another 24hr ban for calling myself an idiot!

 

Haven't been here Steve, sorry if some 348 owners have seemed to take ithings that way.

But there is absolutely nothing whatsoever about anything I've written that is 348 vs 355. In fact I'm saying the complete opposite - it's tough to hold a 348 vs 355 viewpoint when I'm arguing they are basically the same car

Why is this valid?

Because all of these threads are in essence about the same thing - the everso slight 'fall from grace' of the 355 Stateside - that is more or less what we are talking about (although the article was about the British market). And the fact that the 348 has (in some quarters) turned the corner in terms of reputation should be of interest to the debate. But some (not you) 355 owners want to distance their car from the 348, the post I was refering to is a prime example. That's nuts. They're shooting themselves in the foot. The 355 is the refined version of a car that is 'on the up', it's every bit as engineerable at home, it's in essence the Mk 2 of that motor.

But some 355 owners still want to say that's not the case. Their car is not the technical improvement and advancement of a 348. If they want to take that view that's cool. But in the States the values will not shake the idea that a 355 is far more expensive to keep and that is what the problem is.

I'll bow out. I'm getting entangled in a debate I didn't start and have no interest in. As a Ferrari lover ther is no 348 vs 355 debate

Chat soon, still need thos names and car details when you have them mate

 

Wasn't quite done, now I am

Raking it in with a petrol pension

Classic cars have proved to be one of the best investments over the past decade, outperforming wines, stamps and art. A team of experts tells Dominic Tobin what models will attract the next pile of smart money
Dominic Tobin Published: 6 July 2014
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IF YOU had invested £142,000 in a London house in 2004 you would now be sitting on a potential profit of about £100,000 — a 60% return on your money. A decent dividend, you might think.

Not to the buyer of a Ferrari 275 GTS, sold in 2004 by the American auction house Gooding & Company for $264,000 (£142,000 at 2004 rates). The same firm is selling another 275 GTS in August and it is expected to fetch up to $2m (£1.17m). Assuming the two cars are now of similar value, the buyer of the first 275 is sitting on a potential profit close to £1m.

Classic cars have been one of the best-performing investments over the past decade, with an average return of 456%, according to the Historic Automobile Group index, which tracks transactions of rare models. Cars have outperformed watches, wine, coins, stamps and art over the same period.

As a result it has made several car collectors very rich. “I started buying cars with my late husband around 20 years ago,” says Jane Weitzmann, who now runs JHW Classics, which rents out classic cars for film and television. “We just bought what we liked. It wasn’t an investment.

“I’ve got around 40 cars now, from a Ford F150 pick-up to a Jaguar XJ220. I bought a Toyota 2000GT for £180,000, spent £100,000 restoring it and it’s now worth £750,000. Overall, the cars must have at least trebled in value to around £3m.”

If you think that 10 years of spectacular growth sounds like an investment bubble, then you’re not alone. Some in the industry, though, believe that there is still money to be made in classic cars.

“We can’t see the current trends slowing down at the moment,” says Marcus Atkinson of Hagerty, a specialist classic car insurer. “The difference between now and the early Nineties [when the market collapsed] is that people are not borrowing money to buy these cars. They are moving their money out of one asset into another.

“At the moment the market is mainly enjoyed by the South Americans, Americans and Europeans, so at some point the Far Eastern market will get into this area, as will the Russians.”

Atkinson says buyers are looking for low-mileage examples with meticulous service records, while a celebrity connection or illustrious history — especially in the case of racing cars — can boost values. Buying a car in good condition also lessens the risk of having to carry out expensive repair work; sourcing and fitting rare parts can wipe out even large increases in value.

It is not just exotic marques that could prove decent investments. Many cars that cost £10,000 or less have the potential to become modern classics. We asked a panel of experts to nominate their favourites. The recommendations were interesting — and diverse — but they all agreed on one thing: investing in cars is no more certain than in anything else. Prices can go down as well as up, so buy a car that you really want and regard any rise in value as a bonus. Another advantage in buying a car that you will drive is that it will be exempt from capital gains tax, which applies only to vehicles deemed to have been bought solely as an investment.

“I have been through three recessions and seen the classic car market go from hero to zero,” says Tom Hartley, who sold his first car in 1973 and now runs a luxury dealership in Derbyshire. “In the late 1980s I saw the price of Ferrari Testarossas go from £225,000 to £125,000 overnight. History repeats itself and at some point the market will go down. Buyers need to be aware of the risk: go in knowing that you are buying the car you want and only spend money that you won’t miss.”

The collectors
Our experts have selected some of the cars that they think have the best chance of appreciating in value. Their picks are based on their extensive experience of buying, selling, owning and restoring classic cars. Prices can vary considerably depending on the car’s history, mileage and condition.

We have highlighted current values for a car in good condition, and estimated values in five years’ time based on market conditions, which are red hot at the moment but could cool over the coming years.

Marcus Atkinson is the marketing director of Hagerty, a specialist classic car insurer.

Jane Weitzmann has built up a collection of almost 40 cars simply by buying what she likes. Her collection has tripled in value to £3m.

Tom Hartley sold his first luxury car in 1973, aged 12, and now runs a luxury car business in Derbyshire.

John Mayhead originally began restoring Alfa Romeos to make money as a side project and now writes about classic cars.



Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow II

Buying tip Check for paint bubbling round the door handles — it’s a common fault
Pay from £10,000. Sell in five years for £20,000
From its launch in 1977 this car was so in demand that for four years second-hand versions commanded a £6,000 premium over the £27,000 list price. Now its swooping coach lines, partially painted wheels and whitewall tyres instantly conjure up the 1970s. Keep it for five years and Tom Hartley predicts the value will double.



Mazda MX-5

Buying tip Get a Mk 1 version in red, with a hard top and air-conditioning
Pay from £5,000. Sell in five years for £10,000
It’s enough to make you feel old: the original MX-5 now qualifies as a classic. When it was launched in 1989 the simple, cheap, rear-wheel-drive roadster was a breath of fresh air — especially with the roof down. In an era with more electronics, regulations and complicated technology it stands out even more. Rust problems are making good examples rarer.



Porsche 928

Buying tip Aim for a 1978-84 model with a five-speed gearbox
Pay from £10,000. Sell in five years for £25,000
Porsche was making proper four-seat sports cars long before the Panamera, although the 928 did have only two doors. Marcus Atkinson points to the “stratospheric” prices now paid for early 911s, or that car’s sibling, the 912, and predicts that the values for the 928 will begin a modest climb over the next 18 months.



Honda S 2000

Buying tip Buy a facelifted model after 2004, which had improved handling
Pay from £8,000. Sell in five years for £15,000
Say classic roadster and you’ll probably start thinking of an MG MGB GT or Triumph Vitesse, but if you want one that’s likely to increase in value, then you’ll need to find one that people actually want to drive. The S 2000 is reliable, fun and has an engine that revs to 9000rpm.

Check out driving.co.uk for this and other classics. We found a 2005 S 2000 with 57,502 miles for £8,499



BMW 2002 Tii

Buying tip Check the body thoroughly for rust, lifting the carpets on the floor and checking the inner wings from the boot
Pay from £8,000. Sell in five years for £17,500
John Mayhead says that a good rule of thumb when choosing a car to invest in is whether the die-cast model was cool back in the day. Which means that the BMW 2002 should be top of your list. The turbo versions that came with body kits are expensive, but good Tii models can be bought for less than £10,000.



Ferrari 355

Buying tip Make sure cam belts have been changed on schedule; it’s an expensive process as dealers remove the engine to do the job
Pay from £45,000. Sell in five years for £75,000
After losing its way while catering to the 1980s cream-leather-and-red-seatbelt brigade, Ferrari was back on track with the F355. It’s stunning — so good, in fact, Jeremy Clarkson owned one — and you can now pick up a coupé for less than £50,000. But perhaps not for much longer.

Check out driving.co.uk for this and other classics. We found a 1996 F355 Spider with 11,000 miles for £58,950



Jaguar E-type

Buying tip It’s got to be a series-1 model and a fixed-head coupé rather than the roadster
Pay from £85,000. Sell in five years for £200,000
Life doesn’t get much better than threading an E-type through the countryside on a bright summer’s day — especially if you’re making money while doing so. It might be the best-known Jaguar, with a timeless design, but it’s still affordable and tipped to rise over the coming years.



McLaren F1

Buying tip Any genuine F1 is likely to be a good purchase
Pay from £5.5m. Sell in five years for £15m
Money makes money and there’s no better example of this than the McLaren F1. If you have the cash, then the toughest task will be finding an owner willing to sell. But if you get into the centrally mounted driver’s seat now, Atkinson reckons you could be on course to almost treble your cash. “It’s the Ferrari 250 GTO of the digital generation,” he says.



And the car you should have bought...
Ferrari 250 GTO

Price £30m-plus
Bought in 1965 for 2.5m lira, which was roughly £1,430 then and about £24,000 in today’s money, the Ferrari 250 GTO, chassis number 3851, could be one of the best investments ever made. The buyer was a young Ferrari fan called Fabrizio Violati who bought the car without the knowledge of his family. “I saved the car from scrap and hid it from my parents. I only drove it at night so nobody would see me,” said Violati before his death in 2010.

His car collection, including the 250 GTO, is being sold in California by Bonhams in August and the car is expected to smash the world record auction price of £19.6m. The 250 GTO has brought huge wealth to early buyers, as it has become known as the ultimate Ferrari. Only 36 were built between 1962 and 1964 and it had huge success in racing, while remaining road-legal. Ten years ago an example sold for $9m (£4.8m). In 2013 a private buyer is said to have paid $52m (£32m) for another. The bidding for Violati’s car is expected to be fierce. Last week Driving featured a Porsche 917K and reported that it too could set a record auction price. With the appearance of this 250 GTO that is now unlikely to be the case.

Expert on the spot
We can all make predictions when there is no penalty for a mistake, but how about putting your money where your mouth is? This is the challenge we laid down to one of our experts, John Mayhead, who told us: “As long as you do your homework, you can make good money from investing in classic cars.”

Mayhead has given himself 12 months to turn £2,500 of his own money into £20,000 by buying and selling cars.

“When it’s your own cash, cold reality chills those bold predictions, but, given a little luck, a bit of experience and some hard work, I hope that in these pages over the next 12 months you will see me succeed,” he said.

“Classics fall into three categories: those that need very little restoration, those that need a lot and those that need ‘some work’. The last can be the real killers: shiny on the outside, but a rust-and-filler money-pit under the surface. The trick is to work out exactly how much work is needed and to budget accordingly.

“I will do this as a private owner, not as a dealer. I don’t have much money to invest, so I’ll have to start with something needing little restoration. A quick, easy sale is the springboard I need to move on to more ambitious purchases. In fact I’ve just seen an interesting little Triumph advertised locally...”

Rivalling Rembrandt
The Cartier Style et Luxe concours d’élégance at the Goodwood Festival of Speed is where some of the most valuable cars in the world are judged, not on performance but on looks and style. For car collectors this is about as good as it gets. It is not so much the cash — although these vehicles are worth millions — as the kudos: if you have one of these in your garage you are dining at the top table of car investment. It’s like having a Rembrandt in your hallway.

The cars range from the charming little sports “voiturettes” of the 1920s, through rocket-inspired late 1950s Americana, to the supercars of the 1990s. Something for every taste, if not for every pocket.

But how do you decide which one is best — a job I was asked to do as one of the judges at this year’s event?

The most eye-catching car was the 1958 Mercury Park Lane convertible, an astonishing hunk of motorcar that I never expected to see in the metal. It is brash, tasteless and inelegant. Love it or hate it, you cannot ignore it.

At the other end of the scale were the beautiful Maserati coupés of the 1950s, some very rare, of which my favourite was the 5000 GT.

There were also some mid-engined classic supercars, such as a superb white 1968 Lamborghini Miura and the less well known De Tomaso Mangusta from 1971.

The car I loved most was the 1935 Mercedes-Benz 500 K Cabriolet A owned by Winfried Ritter. It combines 1930s elegance with German automotive prowess and a magnificent supercharged engine. If I had a few million pounds to spare, I know where I would invest it.

Jonathan Evans

 

+1

hahahahahaha I just wanted to waste some pixels.

 

I was like daum......can't believe he quoted that whole book!!!! LOL

 

Does Rob get paid based on pixels used???

 

There is your article. You could say thanks for all the work Pete.