....OK fair enough however your talking 10 years of development and an F1 trani vs our .... nice arr eerr notchy trani ( I still love it ) and only 3 sec compared to your manual version Even with that yes you have gained 4 seconds over an entire race track but look at the 348 vs 328. There we have a '7' second jump in one year......... Now that's what I call a significant redesign of a car and a real model update which is exactly what the 348 was designed to be. A quantum leap in technology and performance as Ferrari found itself lagging behind the rest of the sports car world with the 328. You simply can't say that about the level of the 348-355 upgrade. The quantum jump is simply not there in my opinion. What is there is a very well executed upgrade and refinement of the 348 design which simply debugged the hell out of the 348 concept. With the 348 we can honestly say without question it was a pioneer of design and innovation compared to 'its' predecessor the 328. You simply cannot say that about the 355 as lovely and improved as it !
Ha ha ha I'm just happy my F1 finally won something. For a while there I was feeling kinda left out. Like maybe I should have bought that smart car with a hayabusa motor that slaughtered our beloved 355s in a drag race on you tube.
I don't disagree with most of that. But I would say that as time goes on it becomes more and more difficult to get such large improvements. For example, the difference between an F430 and F458 is only 2 seconds. And, FWIW, the difference between the 355F1 and the F360 is only 1.5 seconds. So, in that context the 4 second difference between the 348 and the 355F1 is quite significant, as is the 4.5 second improvement from F360 to F430. And, of course, the 7 second improvement from 328 to 348 is massive, and shows just what a huge leap forward the 348 really was.
What I was going to say is that what surprised me about the times in that table is that there is only a 1 second difference between the Testarossa and the F512M. Considering the F512M is the third and final version of that car I'd expect a much larger difference.
You guys do realize that on a track a 3 second lead means you have crossed the finish line and the second place car is barely in sight. It's a huge upgrade in performance. If Ferrari could get 3 sec/lap improvement in their F1 cars Mercedes would be left in the dust this year. Take Monaco for example. Alonso finished 33 seconds behind Nico after 78 laps. Give him 3 sec/lap and he would have put Nico almost 3 laps down.
My Duramax Diesel runs 12 flat all day in the 1/4 mile I use that to tow with and a Long trips my vehicle of choice, its comphy Ferrari is fun in a different way
Agreed fun in a different way! 2500 Ram for me 850ft lbs of oem stock torque and still an ultra low emission vehicle. After a long weekend of racing the tow home is a pleasure in those nice big comfy seats.
Thisi s kind of crazy. They are much the same and yet so different and we all know why cosmetics, mechanicals, etc. From a performance standpoint, one cannot compare a 1989 with a 1997 model and expect any correlation. Too much evolution. It would be nice to see waht a 348 Competizione stats are and its time around the track. This is the final evolution of the production car. I am not embarassed to say that everything I have done to gain performance in my car has the 355 performance envelope squarely in mind. If I can get my car close to that I would be a happy camper. It would be great to surpass a stock 355 too. Under certain conditions and situations I believe I am there on par with a stock manual 355 (okay, maybe one with bad valve guides) . Of course, when goth and Alex are out there stretching the envelope of the 355, it kind of makes my job a little harder.
....I'm trying to encourage all to enjoy the fun side of this thread and being part of it and the spirit of the topic and most important for neither side to look at any comments made as a personal insult to their mother, father, children or being born outside of wedlock as some seem to do !
.......and yet the 360/430 group also exist as brothers (or maybe not if anything like our happy little clan) as opposed to a 430/458 relationship as there again we have a quantum leap in models. A bit like a 328/348 forum. Now that's something I would like to see
It's only an academic exercise really. It is interesting, that's all. That's why I really wanted to highlight the Testarossa and F512M. Those lap times were 11 years apart and only a 1 second improvement! Here are the actual improvements in Fiorano lap times for the various V8 models (with a corrrection to what I previously posted re 360/430) 328 to 348: 7 sec 348 to F355: 3 sec (4 sec to 355F1) 355F1 to F360: 1.5 sec F360 to F430: 3 sec F430 to 458: 3.5 sec So, the improvement is fairly linear with the exceptions being the huge leap from 328 to 348, and the small improvement from 355F1 to F360. Edit to add: I can't find a time for the 348 Competizione, but the time for the 348 Challenge is exactly the same as the 355F1.
Now that is interesting. It really depends on how much track massaging the Challenge car got, but assuming it was pretty stock, maybe with cat deletes, that is cool. What I would give to have my car taken around that track for comparo!
I don't know how well this will work, but here's the table I'm going by... Image Unavailable, Please Login
Good points, the last of the 348's would have been significantly faster than the 1st of the breed around a track, many improvements to handling (in particular) and power outputs. Unfortunately performance figures for the GTC are non-existent. What I can say though from personal experience is that my GTC matches the 355 in straight line performance (measured against other cars at a drag strip) and has never been eclipsed around a track by any 355 (unless you count a 355CH running on slicks) or any standard 360....though was sorted by a pretty well driven 360CH and pipped by a 360CS last time out Admittedly all of the above were against different drivers of different abilities. Would be great to see a comparo with the same driver in each car on the same day
I may be mistaken, but I'm sure Nosevi once posted up that between the 348 and 355 laps, the circuit was slightly changed and made a little faster. Or perhaps in the period between the 328 and 348.
Just caught up with the latest posts, well done to all... looks like we may be brothers after all and this has been very interesting reading !
Now that really would be good. The track has had a couple of changes over the years, in 1992 which made the track slower, and in 1996 which made the track slightly faster. What we can take from that is: The small improvement from Testarossa to 512M may be explained by the 1992 change. The improvement from 328 to 348 is valid and remains very significant. The improvement from F355 to 355 F1 can be at least partly explained by the track change, although having said that it is generally accepted that around a track the F1 box is a little faster, simply because the changes are quicker and there is no chance of a "fluffed" gear change. All times after 1996 are directly comparable, so there really wasn't a big performance change from 355F1 to F360, and finally, It is still just an interesting observation and not much else, as there are so many variables that could change all of that it's not worth getting uptight about. But it is fun to look at.
