Dodged a bullet, but still will be expensive... | FerrariChat

Dodged a bullet, but still will be expensive...

Discussion in '308/328' started by Tarik, Aug 9, 2014.

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  1. Tarik

    Tarik Formula Junior

    Jun 1, 2011
    381
    Philly Suburbs
    Full Name:
    Tarik
    My QV has been making a sound that reminds me of a bag or marbles being gently shaken... It started very gradually, and was not pronounced in the beginning. I had trouble identifying the precise location of the sound, and thought it may actually be one of the header shields coming loose. I was never able to find anything in the engine bay or under the car that seemed like a culprit. The car always seemed to run properly, and I started to question whether it was in my head, as other people often had trouble hearing it... In reality, it must have been getting louder very gradually, but never in a pronounced manner. Last week I started the car one morning for the first time in a few weeks, and it really hit me: My car definitely did not always make this sound, and it's definitely louder than it used to be. Into the shop she went.

    It turns out that both lower drive pulleys for the cam belts have failed bearings (they were obviously fine three years ago when the belts were last done). My mechanic said he could visibly see both sides wobbling as soon as he removed the belt covers.

    So, the engine will shortly be on it's way out...

    While I'm not anxious to spend a gazillion dollars right now, I don't want to spend half a gazillion dollars and not properly take advantage of the engine being out. I'm trying to think of things that I really should just take care of at the same time, even if they could be done "engine in" but would be easier now...

    Here are the things that have come to mind so far:

    *Both pan gaskets
    *Shift shaft seals
    *Finally install the windage baffle that's sitting in my garage
    *Obviously timing belts and tensioners
    *Water pump/AC/alternator belts
    *Replace the blown high-pressure AC line
    *All fuel lines
    *Possibly the clutch, which I was planning on doing myself in about a year
    *A thorough scrubbing of the engine and engine bay

    Anyone have any logical additions to my list?

    I'm really glad that I didn't have a complete failure with a bunch of piston/valve collisions!!!
     
  2. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2006
    15,517
    Cerritos, CA.
    Full Name:
    Mike
    You can do all these without pulling the engine out.
     
  3. Tarik

    Tarik Formula Junior

    Jun 1, 2011
    381
    Philly Suburbs
    Full Name:
    Tarik
    I'm aware that my list can be done without pulling the engine, but my mechanic wants to pull the engine to replace the failed bearings... Is that not necessary?

    If the engine is coming out, I just want to take care of anything that would be easier to deal with on a stand all at once, even if it could be done later with the engine back in...

    In short, I would prefer to tend to things that were in my mind to be done over the next year or so all at once now, if easier because the engine is out anyway...

    However, if the engine really doesn't have to come out to replace the lower drive bearings I would like to know that...

    Thanks!
     
  4. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2006
    15,517
    Cerritos, CA.
    Full Name:
    Mike
    #4 miketuason, Aug 9, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  5. Ehamilton

    Ehamilton Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 13, 2010
    2,117
    Durham, NC; USA
    Full Name:
    Eric Hamilton
    I replaced my outer bearings without pulling the engine earlier this year.

    However, if your mechanic believes that he'll do a better cleaner job and work more efficiently with the engine out of the car, there's something to be said for listening to him.

    When your valve clearances last checked? If there's any possibility that a head will have to come off for valve seat work, that could tip the balance in favor of getting everything done .
     
  6. Ehamilton

    Ehamilton Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 13, 2010
    2,117
    Durham, NC; USA
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    Eric Hamilton
    Valve clearances and check cam timing?
     
  7. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,171
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!
    A blind bearing puller from Sykes does this job well, and relatively easy.
     
  8. glenv6

    glenv6 Formula 3

    Jul 4, 2011
    1,158
    New York
    Full Name:
    Glen
    Tarik - Will your mechanic be charging book hours, or actual time for each of these line items? Did your mechanic provide a breakdown of his estimate so you can see how much time and cost it is to pull the engine out? I ask because you have a pretty good list of stuff there. If he charges T&M, you may come out ahead with all of those jobs if he pulls the engine, just do the math...

    Good luck!
     
  9. Tarik

    Tarik Formula Junior

    Jun 1, 2011
    381
    Philly Suburbs
    Full Name:
    Tarik
    Thanks everybody for your info and input. I'll have a more detailed discussion with my mechanic on Monday about doing the bearings with the engine in the car. He's very fair and very reputable...

    I'll make a decision after that about letting him do everything all at once, or sticking to my original plan and doing many of the things on my list myself over a longer period of time...

    I really enjoy working on this car, but since I usually work six days a week and have other hobbies as well, these tasks tend to take the car off the road for long periods of time...
     
  10. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    10,630
    CT
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    John Kreskovsky
    Definitely no need to remove the engine.
     
  11. pad

    pad Formula 3

    Sep 30, 2004
    1,418
    Tequesta, FL
    Full Name:
    Paul Delatush
    Add replacement of all water hoses to your list. Also possibly the engine mounts. Based on your list, pulling the engine would make sense. But as stated before, get a budget number from the mechanic. You will probably find the cost for the parts are minimal compared to the labor. If you are good with your hands, this may be a project to do yourself. I have done everyone of your items in my garage with some help from my friend Steve and my wife. Not rocket science, and I'm definitely not a rocket scientist ....
     
  12. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 26, 2001
    14,093
    Canada
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    Newman
    Pull the engine.

    No need to remove the engine to do the outers is correct but what about the inners? So a year later you're in there again to replace a noisy inner? Ive seen people change those in the car as well and the effort is ridiculous to do so not to mention its faster to do it right and just pull the engine. Ive seen inners that dont turn because they're toast and the shaft is spinning in the inner race! Best of all it made no noise. With the engine out reseal everything, do the regular service stuff and take advantage of the fact the engine is out and detail the engine compartment. Maybe paint the tanks, change a bunch of hoses, scrub your engine clean and have a real gem when you're done.
     
  13. ClydeM

    ClydeM F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 4, 2003
    10,462
    Wayne, NJ
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    Clyde E. McMurdy
    1K after my 1st major, I had issues. I guess replacing the belts & tensioners disturbed the bearings enough where they started to fail.
    But mine was more immediate. One morning, it sounded like a diesel truck after starting.
    Flat-bedded her into the shop.
    My bearings failed. I saw the pulleys wobbling.
    They wanted to pull the engine, but armed with articles from the archive, and the knowledge if the engine was pulled other things would soon fail I said no.

    They left the engine in. After the job, the mechanic cursed me for that decision. And it cost me another major. But nothing else broke .
     
  14. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Dec 26, 2001
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    Newman
    That makes no sense.
     
  15. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Jun 11, 2004
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    John Kreskovsky
    When the drive bearings were done on my car it was done in the car and the charge was an additional 4 hrs labor plus parts over the regular major. They didn't seem to think is was a big deal.
     
  16. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 26, 2001
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    Newman
    Then the inners were done on paper not in reality.
     
  17. Tarik

    Tarik Formula Junior

    Jun 1, 2011
    381
    Philly Suburbs
    Full Name:
    Tarik
    Thanks, Newman. This is exactly the insight I was looking for... I really don't want to be penny-wise and pound-foolish with this; I will of course want to have the inner bearings changed as well.

    If the engine is coming out, I may actually tow the car back to my garage so that I can really clean and detail the back half of the car properly at my own pace.

    Thanks again, everyone!
     
  18. Brian Harper

    Brian Harper F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 17, 2006
    4,078
    San Jose area
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    If the outers were seen to visibly wobble then the inners were stressed beyond their designed limits. Will that lead to their immediate demise? I don't know, but I pulled my engine to change them all, so you know where I stand.
     
  19. Ferraridoc

    Ferraridoc F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2012
    16,070
    Gold Coast, Aust.
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    Patrick
    Pull the engine - see my post "While You're in There". Lots and lots of things can be discovered and sorted out with the donk out.
     
  20. Tarik

    Tarik Formula Junior

    Jun 1, 2011
    381
    Philly Suburbs
    Full Name:
    Tarik
    Thank you everybody for your responses... The engine is coming out next week. We have a budget that covers all of the "foreseen" items, and a slush fund for some of the unexpected...

    Once the heart has been removed, I'll probably tow the car back to my garage so that I can clean/touch-up/detail the engine bay as well as I can.

    While I'm not excited about spending the money, I'm really looking forward to having all of this stuff taken care of. I feel kind of bad that I'm not doing any of the work myself (as I had planned to do some of this stuff in my garage in the next year), but I really just want it done (properly), and it just makes sense to me to tend to a bunch of things all at once and have the car go back together pretty well sorted.

    Anyway, I'm sure that plenty of things will present themselves to keep me busy over time... Having all of this work done now should allow my next "home" project to be suspension/steering-related... After which will be some interior refreshing...

    Good thing values are starting to move in the right direction!
     
  21. ClydeM

    ClydeM F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 4, 2003
    10,462
    Wayne, NJ
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    Clyde E. McMurdy
    Since your dropping the engine, you'll be disturbing the three cam position sensors. Two are fairly easy to replace engine in. The 3rd is a bear. Do all three while the engine is out. They are fairly inexpensive from superformance.

    I had one fail before the engine was pulled and two fail separately after the engine was put back in. all within 3K miles of each other.
     
  22. Tarik

    Tarik Formula Junior

    Jun 1, 2011
    381
    Philly Suburbs
    Full Name:
    Tarik
    Thank you, Clyde!
     
  23. glenv6

    glenv6 Formula 3

    Jul 4, 2011
    1,158
    New York
    Full Name:
    Glen
    Tarik -What's going on with your engine out work? Any pictures to share? Hope it's going well!
     

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