308 Engine Rebuild & CIS to TWM Throttle Bodies Conversion Thread!

You got this Chris. There's power to be had there, just needs to be sorted a bit

 

That's good to know. My only fear is finding the right person locally to trust with it.

 

Chris is using the Electromotive TEC. I have the same system and it is not difficult to fine tune. However, with all the aftermarket ECUs, if you are not familiar with how each input and subsequent output interacts with the overall performance of the engine, it can be daunting. It's a case of theory to application.

 

Jack, Paul, this is what he said when I asked him about a couple of issue with the tuning:

"The problem isn't 1st gear itself, it's an RPM issue.

Tuning using VE is based on RPM and MAP (vacuum). Your car doesn't pull enough vacuum to use the entire range of the map sensor. As RPM increases your car only pulls about 5 inches of vacuum after 5000 rpm. That only gives me two or three rows in the map sensor (ve) table to tune everything from 1% throttle all the way to 100%. Given we need to prioritize fuel based on the engines need and safety, we have to make sure it has enough fuel at wide open throttle. Unfortunately wide open throttle and most of the cruise uses the same row. We need pure Alpha-N to be able to use the entire table.

Air/fuel was 13.0 to 13.1."

 

Sorting this out is just " another". Issue to sort out. You sorted out so many and never gave up. Don't let this one beat you!!

Heads up Chris. And continue!!

 

Chris, in post 1737 I can see your vacuum connections. It appears from the pictures anyway that the blue seal is missing where the elbows connect to the plates. Could that be a source of vacuum leak?

 

that's the problem, IMHO......you'd be better off using throttle position instead of vacuum.

I had that same issue when I did my old BB512....tried to use vacuum, but there wasn't any!!

Can you change it?

 

Agreed with aircon, use blend on the TEC 3 which blends TPS to MAP and put an offset voltage about 1V so the computer sees a change in TPS voltage.

 

You can alter the table to increase the rows to get more resolution.

 

Good work, Chris. Keep up the tuning...you'll get there.

 

5" of Mercury = 19.93 KPA. Not much differentiation in either the VE or the ADVANCE tables. Several things come to mind:

Have you checked your advance using a variable timing light? Get your advance working properly before going into the VE table.
As mentioned before, check for vacuum leaks.
Verify you have a 1 BAR MAP sensor and that it is putting out between 0 to +5 volts
(low manifold pressure = low volts).
If you used data capturing during the dyno pull, compare those results to the dyno report and with your .bin file printout. This will give you direction as to what was working right and what was not.

You can alter the KPA table values which will require the creation of completely new Advance and VE tables. I don't know what else will be altered - you will need to check each value.

In addition, you can activate the TPS/MAP Blend feature. However, if I remember correctly, the Blend feature is for fuel enrichment. With a A/F of 13.0 - 13.1 throughout the dyno pull, fuel enrichment does not appear to be your main issue.

Please note there are others out there with more experience and knowledge. Reach out to them.

Good hunting and keep us posted.

 

Keep plugging away Chris...what kind of numbers were you hoping for?

 

Rob, I got all those connected to a MAP sensor.
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Well as mentioned above if not enough vacuum is present then a TPS may be the ticket. Paul selected that way to go on my engine with the Haltec ecu. Also, I was referring to the other end of the vacuum lines where they connect to the plates. In your pictures it looked as though there was no seal present.

 

If you got those throttle bodies from Borla, like I did, they have a TPS that bolts right on.

If you management unit can be controlled by TPS, do yourself a favour and just do it Chris.

I messed around the vacuum v revs for months before giving up. I wasted a lot of time.

 

Chris, may I suggest that before you start making adjustments to the ECU, check the mechanics, i.e. all 8 cylinders are firing, ignition timing advance and TB sync. From what you have stated, you may be down a cylinder.

 

Henry, I was hoping for at least 250-275 on the numbers.

 

You'll figure it out. The setup has huge potential. Any idea what kind of ignition timing is being thrown at it? These 2v motors like a ton. I'll help as much as I'm able.

 

Chris your not that far off your mark if you look at crank HP. I run 35 degrees max on timing on normally aspirated and decrease the timing at high map signal on the twin turbo.

 

For 2v naturally aspirated engines that are below 10:1 compression I run at least 38 degrees and they like a ton of fuel thrown at them too. My 10.5:1 engine sees about 36-37 degrees with about 34 degrees seen at about 3000-3500 rpm. These 2v heads love lots of timing early.

 

Timing is torque.

 

Guys, thanks. Plenty of things for me to check.

I want to apologize in advance if I don't answer everyone's posts. Its tough to balance pizzas, subs and the ipad at work all day.

 

The tuner was waiting for Electromotive to call him back to get some insights on adding more tables. He couldn't get it to run great with the TPS.

I'm going to send him a few replies, maybe he can figure something out.

I looked over the file and I did see a lot of things different from my file Jack and I had done together.
That bin file the car runs great in all gears. The only issue i had was a lot of fuel smell, and one of the cams was making a taping noise when idling.

Now she doesn't smell (as much) or no more taping noise.

 

Here's another run on the dyno.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_spZIFI3wUs]Ferrari 308 - YouTube[/ame]

 

That sounds great