Now I am sure we are at the peak of a bubble!

How many bitcoin for one of those?

 

Characterizing for a bubble is when the absolute majority don't realize we're in one...
We are in the bubble of bubbles and it's spreading to most asset classes. It's very unfortunate that the only way we can create "wealth" in the western world is through extremely low rates and rising house prices. The burst will be much more painful than we understand today.
But don't we hear central bankers all the time complain about "deflationary pressure"...?

 

~ if?

 

There is always an "if", nothing is ever certain in the future. Its entirely possible there will simply be a gentle leveling off of values, as opposed to a popping of the bubble" with values collapsing.

 

Well of course this is what people who have bought fairly recently desire, as do those of course who have bought a couple of cars "as investments" and want to continue to see. I personally would like to see it drop by 30-40% so that I can continue my hobby of buying and experiencing different classic cars again. You see my income has not risen as fast as many of the values of cars that we have seen recently so it's frustrating to me(and I'm sure to many other enthusiasts) that we are left on the sidelines. I would much rather prefer it if all values were lower across the board (including my own cars of course). In the end no one benefits from the higher values apart from Auction houses who get a percentage from the transaction and of course more money as a result without actually needing to increase their costs.

 

I can think of a few cars I would rather have for that money!

 

Just noticed that early JDM cars are also on the rise, warp speed. Basically, anything that's cool and/or significant from the past from Europe and Japan is really taking off!

NSX, Sagaris, GTR KPGC10, any sharknose BMW, all aircooled 911s (the 964 RS, is going to double the next few years), old Astons, early Elise, 911 GT3s, clean pre-R35 GT-Rs and so on.

I'm not angry. At all.

 

Hi Joe, I respect your insight and you bring a lot to the F-chat community. But I have to ask, where's the logic behind the price of this?

Ferrari Testarossa | eBay


Joe

 

I'm with you, I can't find the logic!

 

Utterly nuts. We are seeing more and more of these outrageous asking prices now like the one in my OP.

 

Marshall Goldman selling cars in his private collection and asking prices considerably above current market.

 

Good move. Only the last guy writing the check is the fool. All who preceded him were the good investors.

 

He one that blew me away was the 89 Porsche Speedster at Mecum that sold for $300k plus commission. Granted it had uber low mile/no miles but holy cow.

 

I think the auctions are Sloan's guide...

 

Higher values means that these cars get the attention and the care that they deserve, and thus will be improved and preserved for the next buyer and the next generation of enthusiasts.

You can still buy and experience different classic cars again, you just have to pick cheaper ones.

 

I agree, but I think this applies more to classics than to modern. I.e., it's gratifying to see vintage 911Ts, E-Types, 246s and others being preserved, restored, etc. I hope this means Boxers and 308s will also soon be held in higher regard and kept original.

When it comes to modern stuff, it feels more like a bubble. The cars all seem to have zero miles and live under car covers except when bought/sold/traded. Feels more speculative than anything.

 

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/general-automotive-discussion/450912-bubble-value-cars.html

The older cars are in a bubble too. The very best or very rare highly-desirable models of classic cars seem to have seen rapid appreciation and it is pulling all of the other cars up with them. Saw a 911T with ratty interior and rust bubbles for $25k. The car is "worth" half of that as it needs thousands to make it presentable from 10 feet away, or tens of thousands to restore it.

I think you see the bubble top when all sense leaves and there is no rhyme or reason to poor condition models commanding high prices. It is people jumping on the bandwagon and buying in when they don't understand how overvalued are the examples they are buying. We are close to that level now.

 

If there is a solid market for perfectly restored 911Ts at $150K+, and a great restoration costs $125K+, then $25K isn't all that bubbly.

Whether a 911T is worth $150K in that condition is a matter for the market to sort out, but we know that many of these cars rusted away or were crashed back when they were nearly worthless. If you want one and can't do time travel, the supply of top tier cars is pretty slim. For a modern GT3 RS, Ford GT, or 599 Aperta, the cars never went through that forgotten/worthless stage, so hard to compare.

 

I actually think the opposite: The more being spend on these cars, the less they actually get driven about and the more they get put on enclosed trailers and driven to gold courses where a man with a pen and notebook will tell you whats wrong with the car.

Obviously that is not a rule but the majority that buy cars as an investment will end up doing this.

A Challenge Stradale, F40, GT3 RS etc are not meant for this pointless exercise.

 

+1. Or else they will just sit in the garage(albeit in a nice dehumidified one!)
This has always been the case I guess and we're all guilty of doing similar things-to varying degrees.
In an ideal world of course we'd be driving as much as possible enjoying them to the max, but the real world is different of course........

 

Yup, in the real world, if you have a 73 RS it's in a dehumidified garage being carefully stroked every weekend, unless you are a Silicon Valley CEO or Dr., then you drive .
The rest of us will drive our 996s and etc. Not sure we can even drive the 80s 911s any more at this rate...

 

I always take umbrage at generalizations like this! The cars that actually show up at concours are a tiny fraction of preserved cars. Meanwhile, touring events from the CO Grand to local club tours see far more cars. See attached link from earlier this summer when a few of us local Mercer owners flogged a few Raceabouts around a farm one Sunday afternoon. Based on this weekend's auction results we can safely say you are seeing ~$7M of value between the cars pictured.
Mercers at Howell Farm - YouTube

 

I'm sure you are correct that many people go to events like the ones you mention and have great fun! However time at these events usually still unfortunately represents a very small proportion of time overall that the cars get driven......

 

6 months ago Richard spent time discussing the 89 speedster, 930 and club sport markets. I would add that he was and has been spot on.

No one likes to hear they are bring priced out.