That's an awesome collection, Alberto. Thanks for sharing your photos and driving impressions! It appears that the 2 liter engines have the same stroke as the 308s. Is the block the same, other than the smaller bore?
Glad you like it, thank you. Yes, it has the same stroke as the 308 and the same two valves head and Engine, but with many improvement like valves, valve seats and so on. It's an improved 308 2 valve Engine underbored with a turbo and an intercooler. Ciao
Yesterday I did my monthly small trip with the 328 GTS and GTS turbo. One more drive is helpful to improve my knowledge of those cars, that i own since few months and i drove just very few times. I have to admit that the american sentence "there is no replacement for displacement" is still true. The bigger engine is by far better in the relax mode driving, when you take the car out of the box with the engine cold, when you park it or just drive at slow speed in traffic with many starts and stops: It's by far better for the daily use. The turbo is more exciting with a better intake and exhaust sound and has much more thrust at mid RPM range, but just when you drive it in the "attack mode". As a vintage car, my opinion is that the 328 is better, even if i also think that it's not so much better as the price difference we actually have. But I still consider the GTB/GTS turbo intercooler as the best value for money you can find today and a very exotic car. ciao
As I said in an earlier post, the quickest test I ever read re a 328 was a US mag testing an '86 GTS with a 1/4 mile ET of 14.2. I've read here that there was an alleged test in Europe where a 328 (don't know whether is was an s or a b, managed a 13.8. I find that a bit hard to believe if the car was totally stock. The 1/4 mile trap speeds are actually more indicative of engine performance than the ET is but people seem to concentrate on the ET and leave out the trap speeds.
Do we know of anyone that has switched out the 2 liter block for a 3 or 3.2 liter? Does the lower tax status end after a car becomes a certain age?
Mike, Several tests, by different magazines, reported under 14' in Europe when the car appeared on the market at the end of 1985. The kilometer from standing start was at 25'6. Cars tested were "GTB"s. I guess I should find these mags somewhere in the archives...I'll have a look. Rgds
that's a repost, but shows as they both did 14.5 on 1/4 mile, but Turbo is widely faster in a rolling start from 70 mph. But all those are tests made at full gas, where the turbo is even better than the 328: when you drive with just a bit of gas, the 328 is much better. Trust me: the turbo (intercooler) has much more power at mid RPM range and the same top power, but a bit of lag and half power when under 3000 RPM. Top performances are scored by the turbo, but at the end the 328 is better. ciao Image Unavailable, Please Login
I saw just a week ago a Turbo (the first 1982 model, not intercooled) purchased in the USA with still the side lights and now registered in Italy. So at least two were sold in the USA. ciao
Alberto would know better than me about this, but we are beginning to see one from time to time "outside Italy"; the official Ferrari dealership in Belgium had two "Turbos Intercooler" for sale recently; another one was offered in the official dealership in Luxembourg; even one in the UK. It's a sorry state of things when Ferraris are leaving Italy. Rgds
"that's a repost, but shows as they both did 14.5 on 1/4 mile, but Turbo is widely faster in a rolling start from 70 mph. But all those are tests made at full gas, where the turbo is even better than the 328: when you drive with just a bit of gas, the 328 is much better. Trust me: the turbo (intercooler) has much more power at mid RPM range and the same top power, but a bit of lag and half power when under 3000 RPM. Top performances are scored by the turbo, but at the end the 328 is better." Am I misreading the magazine post? Nearly all the acceleration figures seems to show the 328 to be faster. It's hard for me to read the magazine info on my computer screen so maybe I'm seeing them wrong but the only specs I see where the turbo shows quicker is 70-160 and 70-180. They show the same 400m time but the 328 accelerates quicker in every 0-to whatever test and all the 70- to whatever tests except the two I mentioned.
I hope many of them will leave Italy: they are not well known outside Italy, but the intercooler is a great car and until the entire world will know how good it is. I often read and listen even here in Italy "the carbed cars have a fantastic intake sound" and so on. I always answer: "Did you ever drive a turbo? THAT is a fantastic intake sound... " The 328 is better as it has a 60% bigger engine, but the small intercooler turbo is a great and adrenalinic car as fast as the 328 even if the 328 has some more. I think one of the best purpose of a forum like this is to share impressions about cars we don't have so you can learn about olther cars: this GTB/GTS turbo is almost completely unknown outside Italy, it's fast, reliable, exotic, rare, emotional, the first turbo Ferrari road car ever, so i think it deserves a bit of promotion... ciao So i'm sharing
at 70 km/h (45 mph) the turbo does not push yet, as you are in the below 3000 rpm condition i wrote, where the turbo is very slow. If you compare the 120 to 160 km/h times, you will find the turbo time is 6,5 s while the 328 time is 9,3 s: that's a VERY BIG difference! At 120 km/h the turbo is at full boost at almost 3500 rpm and says "bye bye" to the 328. No other 3x8 car can score a 120 to 160 km/h (75 to 100 mph) time like that, that is very impressive for such a small engine. I ask you to find which vintage car you need to score a 6,5 s time from 75 to 100 mph in top gear: you need a very powerful one! While at low RPM, the 328 this time has a BIG advantage as shown in the 70-100 km/h time: 6,3 s for the 328, just 8,7 s for the turbo. That exactly what you feel when you drive the car: low power under 3000 RPM, BIG power above 3500 RPM. I repeat: until 3000 RPM the 328 has a big advantage, at 3000 the turbo ties, at 3500 the turbo goes ahead by far, at 6000 RPM the 328 ties and above 6500 RPM the 328 has a (very) small advantage. That's the summary! I have both: i know which pushes more. ciao
Alberto thank you for all your Gts Turbo postings !! The feeling reminds me my old 911 turbo ( 3.3, 4 speed ) After 25 years ... I still remember the push after the 3500 rpm !!! I hope soon I will be able to re leave the same feeling ! ( and this time with much better sound lol .... ). Keep the great postings.....
What you "FEEL' and what the cars are actually doing can be quite different. It is very common to feel the push of a turbo coming in or a cam coming on as producing more power where, in fact, it is just a contrast with the "hole' in the power band prior to that point. There are myriad seat of the pants reports of a modification producing "more power" but then, when put on a dyno or on the track, the results show the opposite. Aftermarket muffler systems are classic. EVERYBODY that installs an aftermarket exhaust seems to mention how much "freer breathing" the engine is and that they can feel that added power. But the facts do not support the "butt dyno." I have specifically been involved in tests where the owner talked about the increased power that a "performance exhaust" added as well as that great sound. Turned out the stock muffler produced 13 more HP on the dyno and the car was quicker in the 1/4 with the stock muffler… I'm not arguing at all with the performance figures that magazine obtained - they are what they are. But my experience is that a "feeling" of more power is as often wrong (maybe more so since it's easy to fool the butt) as it is right.
Thanks, Dino. I never drove a 911 turbo 3.3, but i suppose that with just four speed the drivability was lower than the Ferrari, as you need a low rpm loss among gears to avoid the transition RPM zone where the boost suddendly rises and spins the car. I suppose it was a scaring monster... The GTS/GTB turbo probably has a better drivability than the 930 3.3 four speed even if it hasn't the same big power as it's just a 2 liter and not a 3,3. But it's amazing how fast that small 2 liters is: i think none here can believe or imagine exactly how much. And when i read that someone says it's underpowered, i always laugh: that small V8 has a devil inside and it's just underpowered under 3000 rpm... above it's overpowered! ciao
Mike, you are right, I share your opinion about impressions. But here we are talking of figures and not impressions: 6,5 s versus 9,3 s in the 75- 100 mph time is an IMPRESSIVE AND INCREDIBLE difference in figures and not just in impressions, as in the 75 to 100 mph time in fifth gear, the 328 is almost 50% slower! Ok? When you add all the figures you will find the two cars ties, but there are some conditions where the turbo is widely faster as at mid RPM range has much more horsepower than any other 3x8 car: it's like to have two third of a 288 GTO. ciao
Good points, Albert, and I agree. Heck, given a choice, I'd rather have the turbo car than my 328! If for no other reason than that it's easier to get increased performance from a turbo motor by simply bumping the boost! (I still keep kicking around adding the 928 Motorsports supercharger to my 328)
Mike, up to now i wrote just certain things and data: now i will start to write just opinions and things i was told but that i cannot verify. I was told that turbo intercooler can increase 10-15% in power, just setting the wastegate. You cannot do it with the disastered not intercooled turbo engine, that already is at the thermal stress limit if not a bit over that, as it has higher inlet temperatures and above all poor valve seats: it will fail immediately. I was told the intercooler turbo can stand a small inlet pressure increase without damage, but i do not know if that is true. What i know is that it has an overboost warning red light: if it turns on when you push hard, means the wastegate is blocked closed or does not open quickly when the pressure in the inlet manifold reaches 1,05 bar. In my opinion that means the engine can go over its thermal limit if you increase the wastegate settings. Or maybe Ferrari did that just because wanted to avoid paying some engine rebuildings when still on warranty period, so limited the pressure to a prudential safety value. My mechanic, Toni, always says that the only way to destroy an intercooler turbo engine is just that: keep pushing with the overboost light flashing. He told me that a GTB turbo engine blew up just for that reason: the owner saw the red light as the wastegate was blocked in the close position (it can happen, after many miles or many years without cleaning it), but he liked the big power that the overboost produced and enjoyed the 300 + hp for a long time. The result was a disaster: the engine blew up, with a $$$$$ damage. So i prefer to keep the wastegate factory setting, as the car is already very fast: in a rolling start from 120 km/h that will end at 180 km/h, a standard turbo intercooler can give more or less 140 yards to the 328. That's enough! I do not know if the 328 engine can stand a supercharger: i would be very careful. ciao
I would like to know. I think you should change many but many parts, including turbo, water radiators, water pump , pistons, clutch and so on, resulting a very expensive game. Ciao
I found this: ferrari 308 and 328 race prep, ferrari 308 and 328 performance upgrades Here in Italy we usually don't like such monsters so i suppose there aren't here around. ciao
