Bob, did you ever have P0410 pending or actual? You should have.
I did a clean and repair job on the plug for now and the fan starts and runs fine empirically. I have definitely never heard that whine before. So mine has not worked in my tenure. Past threads suggest dirty filter itself will create the amp draw. I'll keep an eye and ear on it. Thank you
See my post with the filter media from McMaster Carr. It's cheap so I suggest you replace it Image Unavailable, Please Login
Yes. That was the whole reason for me getting into this was to replace the filter element. Fortunately I tested the fan while I was in there. On my way to the tropical fish store.
A dirty filter should not create a high amp draw. Dirty filter > less flow through fan > less work done > less current or same worse best. Try a simple test. Get out your shop vac. Turn it on and listen to it. Then block off the suction hose. Note that the RMP rises. That is because the fan is not doing any work pumping air. Less work means lower current because work watt-seconds. Watts are volts x amps. Same volts, less work > lower amps. You get higher current when you do more work, like starting the motor from rest, pumping more air, pushing down harder on your electric drill or when the friction in the motor increases from bad bearings/poor lubrication.
John, some are referring to this as a fan, it's a pump. So you are saying that a restriction of the intake won't increase load on the motor and higher current draw? If the bearing are worn, that would be a similar effect to a restriction on the intake
I just unplugged power to the pump and turn the key to accessory (not engine start). The whine I hear is not this pump, it must be the F1 pump. Without putting a volt meter in the circuit, I have no idea when the air pump starts or stops. Not sure if it starts on accessory or engine start. My car is way too loud to hear it upon engine start. So, the 20 seconds I referenced is something else (likely F1 pump)
Well, if you block off the flow through the pump (form either side) the pump RPM should increase and that means the current must decrease. Now, if you block off the flow and the rpm drops it would mean you have a really F'ed up pump.
I don't understand this, John. I would thing blocking off the intake would stall the motor or slow it down, not cause it to run faster.
It's a little complicated. When the pump is running with no flow through it, it establishes zero flow pressure rise across the inlet and outlet. The energy required to do this is all lost as there is no work done since the pump work is volume flow times pressure rise. Now consider that you just let an infinitesimal flow through the pump. The pressure rise remains the same but now there is some work done since there flow. So new the load on the pump (energy input) increases to that required to maintain the zero flow pressure rise plus the work done to push that flow through the pump. As you increase the flow rate more pumping work is done and the load continues to increase. That's a very simplified, approximate explanation of why the load increase with increased flow. Now why would it run faster with no flow? I can get technical here but let's just say it is a characteristic of an electric motor which we should all be familiar with. I think we all have used an electric drill or buffer and note that when we press harder (increase the load) the drill or buffer slows down. It slows down because it needs to generate more torque to drive the load and the slow an electric motor goes, the more torque if generates. More torque means more current since torque is proportional to current. So, blocked flow mean less load which means the motor doesn't need to generate as much torque so it speeds up and the current draw drops.
John, I don't have the time now but I want to test this. I view it just like the drill. What if I put a pin in the impeller? Load and current would increase, right? I see the same happening if I restrict the flow. But, hey you are the professor and chances are you are correct
The fish store had the correct filter medium. I have enough with what I bought to make about 36 of these sets. If you want to replace the filter, send me your name and address and I will send you the precut material as in the picture. Probably a good , simple DIY job for anyone. The whole process should take no more than an hour if that and you don't need a lift to do it. Image Unavailable, Please Login
I was thinking of offering the same but the stuff is so cheap from McMaster that the shipping alone would offset. PS, the original was two layers thick. I measured the original against what I bought and they are exact so I doubled mine up like the original.
Bob, since you still have yours apart, please do a bench test. Use the car battery to power the pump motor, use an amp meter to measure current at free flow than do the same when plugging the intake. I'd appreciate it since I don't want to tear mine out of the car again
The stuff I got is the correct thickness without doubling as you can see in the pic. If anyone needs it just drop me a note.
You need to disconnect the wires to the solenoid valves, the TC's, the TCU leads, the vacuum lines. Then, unmounted the vacuum canister (2 bolts, one top one bottom) then the panel has 3 bolts, 2 top one middle as seen here (panel removed) Image Unavailable, Please Login
No not the same thing. Pinning the impeller would max out the current because the motor is not turning. Except for the resistance of the winging a pinned motor looks like a short circuit. As the RPM increases the effective impedance of the motor winding increases due to the generation of a back EMF (voltage opposed to the applied voltage). This reduces the current flowing through the winding. But by blocking the flow you are not pinning the impeller. It is free to spin and, as I said, will establish the zero flow pressure rise across the impeller. Maybe this figure will help. It's pump shaft power vs flow with the different color lines indicated height (pressure rise). There are 2 issues here. 1) the work to pump the fluid vs. flow rate at a given pressure rise, and 2) how an electric motor response to load. Do what I said with a shop vac. As the plot shows the load will decrease if you block the flow. This means less power is required. Ideally you would reduce the current to the motor to keep the pump RPM constant. But there is no control so the motor RMP increases instead , increasing the effective impedance, which reduces the current. And, oh yes, power = voltage x current. Image Unavailable, Please Login
There are two 10mm bolts on the top of the subpanel and one dead center that hold the panel to the chassis. You can see the holes in these pics. Remove those three bolts. There are two 10 mm. bolts that hold the air canister to the panel on the cars right side of the panel. You can see the two threaded nuts in the pic., Remove these and the canister will just hang connected to its tubing. Loosen and pull free the intake and outflow hoses off the pump. Unplug the air pump electrical connector. The plug is below the pump itself and accessible from above Unplug the cat ecu connectors. If you arent familiar with their origins and how they are paired, label them or tape the pairs together. It doesnt matter which ECU they get back on but it does matter that they are correctly paired. At this pint the only thing remaining connected to,the panel are the solenoid at the bottom rather than disconnecting the tubing and plugs on them it is easier to remove the connected solenoid from the panel. In order to unclip the solenoids from the bracket they are on you have to release a clip on the underside of the solenoids. You cannot reach the clip on one of the solenoids with the bracket holding them in place. Remove the two bolts and nuts holding the solenoid bracket to the sub panel. You can do this from above and you need to hold the nut on the back while removing the bolts. Remove the solenoids from the bracket and put the bracket back on the panel for reassembly. At this point you can drop the panel out of the bottom of the car. Or from the top. The removal of the fence that holds the gauze is straight forward once you have it in yoru hands. On reinstall, slide the panel with the pump,on it into,the space from the top with the canister and the solenoids hanging down off to,the right (fender if RHD). Put the three bolts in holding the subframe. Attach the canister at its two top,and bottom mounting points. Slide the solenoids back over their clip locations. Plug in the ecu connectors correctly. Plug in the pump connector. Reattach the pump hoses and route them through the clips on the panel. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Dave mine ran for 2 minutes and about 25 seconds. Outside air temp was 63 and I do have hyper flows which may make it run longer until the thermocouple cuts it off. My guess is that the pump will run longer with hyper flows than stock. Only because they take longer to heat up. (Just a guess)
It's loud and easy to hear in my car even with my tubi headers and capristo stage 3. Maybe I have a blockage and as discussed above the rpm goes up. Although when my car was in for service they told me this was normal. I did read above but I said I would post the time so I did. I am confused why you can't hear it I can hear it with windows up and like I said its easy to hear in mine. Interesting these machines, the same but different. Dave I think you should hear it easy maybe it's not turning on. To be honest I did not hear it as much with the stock cats. And it does not start until a few seconds after the engine fires up.
