Gas Smell in 360 | FerrariChat

Gas Smell in 360

Discussion in '360/430' started by delaney, Aug 11, 2014.

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  1. delaney

    delaney Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2003
    704
    St Petersburg, FL
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    PETER DELANEY
    #1 delaney, Aug 11, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Got a slight whiff of gas yesterday and immediately thought of the roll over valves....and the trauma of their replacement. It's a 2003 spider. Did a search and lifted the top 1.2 way and found an access plate...must have been the mod for later 360's. Six screws later (30 secs) and the plate was off and the valve were there. But it was solid...no cracks. However there was lots of gas. Cleaned everything up to trace the source, turned the car on and the circular thing in the picture very slowly filled with gas. Any idea what's going on?

    Regards,

    Pete
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  2. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Yup. You need to replace the pump (the circular thing).

    Basically the plastic has degraded and you have a micro-crack in the plastic. The high pressure fuel is making its way out of the crack ontop of the pump (the wetness above). Crack is probably at the nipple where that rubber fuel hose fitting is connected. If you drive it long enough like this it will catch fire. Replace it.
     
  3. delaney

    delaney Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2003
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    PETER DELANEY
    Does it basically just unscrew... Or is it more complex?

    Thanks for the quick reply.

    Pete
     
  4. up4speed

    up4speed F1 Rookie
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    Don't mess around with fuel smell. I can't say much now, but a friend if mine with a 360 just lost his car to fire the other day!
    He is having possible issues with insurance so I can't elaborate until he resolves it. All I'm saying is don't mess around with a car with a fuel smell.
     
  5. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Pete, there are instructions here to remove it. there are some tight fits.. a ring of 10mm bolts holds the panel in and the run on the outside unscrews it. the pump is a bit expensive. if you're not too familiar I'd farm it off to a mechanic..

    see: Ferrari 360 Modena Parts : Table 10 - FUEL PUMPS AND PIPES
     
  6. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Chris please share when able anonymously if there is anything we can learn from..
     
  7. up4speed

    up4speed F1 Rookie
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    I will definitely do that. The only thing I can say so far is to take any fuel smell very seriously. Another thing I can add is that just because a problem was "fixed" by a mechanic (even a good well known mechanic) it doesn't mean that a possible mistake can't be made, in turn, possibly causing a total loss of your car.
    Sorry for being so vague at this time, I will definitely elaborate when all the facts come out and my friend says it's ok to elaborate. Insurance companies can be a pain.
     
  8. English Rebel

    English Rebel Formula 3

    Aug 13, 2013
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    Does that plate with all the bolts have to come off as it seems as if removing the large ring nut (#5) would allow the pump assembly to come out?
    Alan
     
  9. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Alan, you can in theory remove the pump just by turning the "ring" (#5)that holds it onto the bezel. The passenger side fuel pump can in theory be removed by this alone. When I did mine I found that I had to remove the 10mm nuts in order to give enough room to maneuver the pump out of the car.
    With the drivers side pump, you have the fuel level sensor that.. I've read mind you.. takes additional maneuvering and swearing to get out of the car. For the passenger side, I'd count on needing that plate and the bolts needing to come out. Its just a clearance issue with the fuel level sensor in the drivers tank.
     
  10. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Now THIS is interesting. I agree, I wouldn't post anymore until everything is finalized.
     
  11. delaney

    delaney Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2003
    704
    St Petersburg, FL
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    PETER DELANEY
    Thank you all for the very helpful feedback. I do take gas smells very very seriously. The pump is ordered and I'll install Friday. Then the car goes to Forza motors where Frank will do a smoke test to make sure everything is good. At least I. Have the luxury of access panels so the roof didn't have to come off.

    Regards,

    Pete
     
  12. delaney

    delaney Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2003
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    PETER DELANEY
    An update. Got the pump out very easily. Hardest challenge was the large plastic nut. A few smallish taps got it loose. The pump itself lifted straight out with very little effort... Including the float. Maybe Ferrari made enough space when they did the mod. Also, there was no ring of nuts .... Photo below. While I'm in there, going to renew both rollover valves. Photo to follow!!
     
  13. whatheheck

    whatheheck F1 Rookie
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    Mar 27, 2006
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    I had the same issue and the dealer replaced my fuel pump. Fuel pump made of plastic and indeed there was a hairline crack that's why I smell fuel once in a while.

    I didnt want to mess around with fuel leaks so instead of learning or trying to do it myself I just had them remove and replace my fuel pump. Not cheap............

    I have a post here somewhere.
     
  14. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    You know.. I just looked at the spider parts diagram and there ISN'T a ring of 10mm bolts on the spiders! Interesting. I guess us Modena owners get the extra work.. :)
     
  15. delaney

    delaney Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2003
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    PETER DELANEY
    Ok sticker shock. Anyone sourced the rollover valves for less than 2-300$ a piece. Mine are ok and was going to renew as preventative maintenance....but for ~ &1000... Maybe not.

    Pete
     
  16. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    Sep 18, 2002
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    that is not the roll over valve btw..
     
  17. delaney

    delaney Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2003
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    PETER DELANEY
    Is it just an elbow then? The right angle grey thing in my first picture?
     
  18. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    That should be the fuel line to the fuel injector rail on the engine. The line should go from the pump right to the injector rail.
     
  19. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Somebody needs to make a replacement part for the cap and attachments. They make one in bronze for the 550/456M, but it is over $400. Have never seen one for the 360.
     
  20. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    If its similar to the Porsche and Volvo fuel pump heads then might just be as easy as buy remove and crimp. Only issue I can see is the pump output line is fused to the plastic. Might need a decent crimp or clamp for the pressure.
     
  21. bisel

    bisel Formula 3
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    Sep 12, 2012
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    I recently replaced one of my fuel pumps on my Modena. Same thing the OP found .. smell of gas and fuel puddling on top of fuel pump cap. In concept, easy to to do the R&R. In practice, not easy to do. Access is difficult, removing cap took time. But, other than accessing the various screws, straight forward.

    Steve
     
  22. delaney

    delaney Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2003
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    PETER DELANEY
    #22 delaney, Aug 16, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Apologies for the late post of picture. Several people talk of a set of 10mm nuts that should be removed to improve access...I have no nuts! After lifting the top about half way, there was an access panel with 5 small screws. Undid that and the pump was exposed with a large plastic screw down cap. A few taps and that unscrewed, and the whole pump body lifted out quite easily....about 10 secs. No problem with restricted access, and no set of nuts. Picture below.

    A word of caution. If you do this, take care not to break the clips on the plastic right angle grey thing (1st picture)...the bit I thought was the rollover valve. After 13 years they're very brittle..I snapped one... $160...only comes complete with the fuel line.

    Pump was ~$670 including a new gasket (big rubber 'O' ring) from Ricambi.

    On a scale of 0 - 10 on technical difficulty, I'd rate it a 1 - 2. The whole operation could be accomplished in 45 minutes....assuming you have that access panel. No special tools needed. Without the access panel I'd say ~5 - 7 hrs with two people.

    Once again, thanks again for all the guidance.

    Pete
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  23. Utah360Spider

    Utah360Spider Karting

    Mar 21, 2014
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    Southern Utah
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    Breck Dockstader
    Well I read this post earlier today, then went for a cruise tonight and how lucky..strong gas smell. Removed access panels and sure enough gas on top of pump. Cleaned up and started car up and filled back up slowly. Will order new pump tomorrow. So relieved I have the access panels!!
     
  24. delaney

    delaney Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2003
    704
    St Petersburg, FL
    Full Name:
    PETER DELANEY
    A month or so ago I posted a query about a CEL that produced no codes. The SD2 simply said 'nothing stored', although when I hit the 'erase' function...the CEL went away. It returned ~ every 50 miles, then got more frequent ~ 20 miles.

    Then I started to smell the gas fumes and ended up changing out the drivers side fuel pump (360 Spider 2003) that had gas pooling in the center. The CEL has never returned.

    Question: If the two are connected..gas fumes & CEL...how?

    Regards.
     
  25. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    I'd be thnking depressurization of the fuel system and the CEL code or lower fuel pressure leading to injector issues and the code..
     

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