Hi All, I have a few more questions for you if you'll allow me. I'm (I think) narrowing my search for a 456. Quickly, after hours of staring and visiting cars, I like the interior and front bonnet more on the 456, and I like the front grill better on the 456M. Mechanically speaking I'm more inclined toward a 456M after reading the "456 vs 456M" thread and I understand that the earlier non-M cars had lots of problems that were largely fixed for the 456M. All that said, I'm currently comparing 2 cars... 1.) A 1997 456 GTA with around 30k miles that has a long documented service history. Ask price in the mid-$40k range. Colour ok but not my all time favourite. Window regulators have been replaced (more than once?!), tons of hoses have been replaced over the years including transmission and rad, new rad, new engine mounts, a lot of leaky valves replaced and all belt services done, including the 30k service. In general the car has a very well documented service history but I have noticed that several things have been done twice, which causes me to wonder, do fixes to problems like the window regulator or the sticky interior stay fixed if you get them fixed? Or do they often recur later on or is it just a matter of having them fixed once and for all by the proper mechanic? Also, this particular car also seems to have been brought in for leaks A LOT. I'd like to know of this is normal on a 456 or if this one might be a bit of a "limone". 2.) Second car is a 2001 456M GTA. Ask price is in the upper $50k range. I love the colour, don't like the gauges as much as the older car. Seems a bit petty but you stare right at the gauges when you're driving, so... Anyway, car only has 9000 miles and looks great to the eye but when I ask about service history I get VERY vague responses, which makes me VERY nervous, along with the fact that I understand these cars wear better through the years when they've been driven regularly, and 9000 miles over 13 years seems quite low to me. Basically, it's a consignment car and it feels like the dealer wants to sell it as-is with little to no info given. So, options are - get the older car and hope all the prior services will have successfully addressed some of the known issues and ultimately saved me a few bucks, or get the newer car with less miles and hope the fact that it's a "M" model in seemingly good condition will mean it's less of a money pit waiting to happen. Of course I can just wait and be patient and see if a car comes along that makes me more comfortable all around, but I'd love to hear your thoughts based on the info given. I could post links to the cars but not sure that's fair to the sellers involved. Disclaimer - I have had Ferrari's in the past and yes, I know they're all money pits waiting to happen. Money aside I really just want a driver that I can jump in and hit the road without finding a new leak every time I go into the garage or hear a new "bad noise" every time I turn the key. I'm wondering if a seemingly issue prone but properly maintained and repaired 456 is even worth it or if it will likely just continue to have problems, and conversely if a low mileage/low info 456M is worth the gamble. I appreciate the benefit of your experience as owners so thanks very much in advance! Best Dave
Hi Dave, in short - wait for a better opportunity you feel more comfortable with. On a sidenote, there are three (!) different versions of the instruments gauge on the 456M, the font and style has changed twice during the model lifetime. There is a thread somewhere that shows it, but can't find it. Maybe you'll like one of the other two stylings better, which will eliminate one of the concerns of going with a 456M.
Dave 456 is a great and very underrated choice. I've had two. A 1997 456 GTA and now have a 1999 456M GTA. First thing I would say is get the M. It is a better car in almost every way. Interior is much better, and I prefer the exterior styling more too. I like the dials. Looks a bit more modern, plus the pre M cars had 5 dials at stereo height which were hard to read on the go. My M car was a total no no from the start. Driven about 300 miles in 3 years. No history. Showing signs of needing to be mechanically restored. Basically anyone in their right mind would avoid it. Basically decided to take a risk and ended up holding the baby when the eBay auction finished. Did I mention in its previous life it had also had a minor front knock? Plus this was to become my daily driver! Sounds bad? The plus side was the price, and at $50k I would say your M is well priced too. Part if the reason why I purchased it was because I wanted a car I could work on. You can read about it on one of my other threads. I went on to give it a major service. Cambelts. Bearings. Filters. Oils and fluids. Radiator reconditioned and pipe work replaced. Plus a fair bit more. All work was done at home with the help of a Ferrari mechanic friend. Car now drives great, still not perfect but is my daily driver. What I will say is most will not work on the car themselves so this set up won't suit. But don't just look at history. Look at current condition. Get a PPI done and see what needs to be done now and what is fine. Underneath it may be a better car than a car with full history but currently in need of large expenses.
I agree that you should keep looking if you aren't in love with the 2001 456M currently in your sights. Ms are better cars, and despite your styling preferences, I think you should opt for the M. The speedo and tach gauge faces at least were changed on the M in late 2002-2003 model run. While it's true that a garage queen can be trouble and that service records are sketchy, a PPI by a real Ferrari expert could help expose some potential problems. If you are in the US, there are currently four Ms for sale on cars.com: 1 manual in TDF blue and 3 autoboxes. The manual is a 2003 and has the latest gauge design. Beautiful but really pricey. http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/609167804/photo/ Autotrader.com has even more cars: a 2000 Blue TDF manual and a 1999 Rosso Corsa/tan, both at $70K. Good hunting.
Here is a bit more info... http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/456-550-575-sponsored-bradan/342210-seriously-considering-1995-456-6-speed-what-am-i-missing.html?highlight=compare+456+456M I love my '95 456 stick. Other issues to consider might need attention: Rotting fuel pump gaskets and clogged fuel lines and injectors (mine ran fine despite poor performance of clogged injectors). It's a V12 Engine mounts Exhaust ECU's that produce "Slow Down" warnings. Mine did not have a single problem on 1 hr test drive. Started the 1st day I got it home. Age of the tires All the other standard stuff. Get a high quality PPI with a Ferrari specialist. Plan to have 5-10K in reserve to have things fixed in the first year. My car is now PERFECT! One big smile on every drive. Good luck with your search! Best AK
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/ferraris/460546-2002-456m-gt.html#post143370024 take a look at this one.
Thanks Ross. I saw that one a few days ago but I'm in the States. I'd rather avoid import hassles an find a car in the US if possible. That's a nice one though.
Thanks everyone for the advice. Sounds like I should stick with my initial plan of getting an "M". The earlier 456 just reminds me more of the 70's design the car seems based on, reminiscent of the Daytona of course, and also the Fiat 2000/2400 Dino Coupe. The front end of the car has a stright sloping angle that reminds me a bit of a stretched out 308 Dino front end. It's very Italian and very 70's looking, which I love. And the original 456 interior in general but especially the gauges are more in line with an older styling, less "muscle car" styling aesthetic. The "M"s front end is beautiful but seems a bit more Americanized to me, and the interior seems more contemporary looking, which many will love but I have somewhat anachronistic tastes. But I don't know if those minor aesthetic adjustments are worth the extra headaches the earlier 456 cars seems to come with. All that said, I'd be happy with an M that had the 2002-2003 gauges. Maybe even if I got an earlier M I could have the gauges re-screened or just find some later gauges to swap out. Thanks everyone!
Ha! That's how it always goes, isn't it?! Honestly if I could foresee putting 5-10k in ONCE and fixing all the remaining issues I'd probably buy an earlier car. My concern is that when I read about the earlier 456's it seems they don't like to stay fixed for very long. Your story makes me think it's possible though! The car I'm referring to had its engine mounts redone, and I think got some new tires along the way as well. I read through the service records hoping the ECU had been replaced and also searched for something that addressed the sticky interior issue being fixed. Couldn't find either so maybe they're not an issue with this car, or maybe they'd become an issue the day after I drove it off the lot. Who knows? Thanks for the 456 perspective!
There are differences between M and non-M, but not many in the reliability department. The early ones will have a little more age related issues because they're, well, older. In the end, maintenance cost early vs. late isn't different by much. It depends more on the (wear on the) car than on the model.
Not sure where you live, but keep in mind that the cooling system on the 456 and 456M went through about five upgrades, all of which were done by the 200/2001 cars. My '01 runs cool enough up to about 100F, which would probably overwhelm early 456's. As for reliability, I did a no-expense-spared sort-out of my car, and it has been as reliable as my Toyota since I finished it, and I've put 15K miles on the car in 2.5 years. If you can find one of the rare 2002/2003 M's, those will probably hold their value the best. Cheers, George
I have had my 1999 456m GTA Blu Pozzi for about 3 months. I drive it 3-4 times per week and have put over 700 miles on it. I put tires and pads on when I first got it. Going to do stickies this winter. Runs like a top... so far! It had just under 22k when I got it. Had ok sevice records with mounts/belts etc done in last year. Probably the prettiest car I have owned. First Ferrari. I love to drive it and know the more I do the better the car will be.
Agree 100% When considering a 456, be that an early GT or a late M, one should always keep in mind that we are talking about cars between 19 or 14 years of age and if we are looking around us, there are not that many cars of comparable age on the road to begin with, and those that are still in service are not doing that great, for the most part.
Thanks everyone. Yes, it's weird to think 2001 was 13 years ago. Perhaps I'm actually starting to get old. Haha. But the point is well made - no point in being too overly neurotic as old cars always need attention at some point.
You will get lots of opinions but in the end you should go with your own feelings (and proper PPI). I was fortunate to drive a first series (1994 European version=no airbags) and I would buy the same in a hartbeat-I had no problem whatsoever ( beside the window regulators) the only reason I am currently considering a M series (2001) is because it is the only one with proper maintenance/history in my area. They both have the same power/performance, the M might represent an evolution but night/day difference? -no way.
We had a mild August this year. Last year there was a 110. Cheers, George Image Unavailable, Please Login
George- It is those historic averages of 96 and 97 that are impossible to escape. Mom lives in Garden Ridge. But at least the humidity is high, too.
I would continue looking. Almost bought the thing. But something in my gut told me not to. Had a fellow chatter test drive it for me. I need to send em some money also for that. Been busy with my 550 transaction. If that tells you anything. However, the 456 looks really cool from the rear and just off to the side! Definitely, get the M. Feel like you nailed it with your comment about problems not remaining fixed on earlier models. Stick with that mental model. I think it will take you far and keep a smile on your face.
Thanks Sean. Yeah, price is good and I like the look but rightly or wrongly something in my head keeps warning me off. But I'm not in a hurry and there seem to be lots of 456's that come to market, so I'll find the right one eventually.
