Does Coys Really Sell Iso Grifo No. 001 – “A Very Important And Rare Car”

Priceless...

Why is it that this P538 is consistently brought up, no matter what car is being discussed? Is it the only thing you can think of?

The issue here has nothing to do with importing or selling fake cars on a private level. That particular discussion could be long and tedious, I'm sure. This has everything to do with Coys going through with the sale of a car that they clearly knew had some questionable heritage. While they may not have known of these issues prior, the fact they were notified by numerous parties and chose to ignore the concerns that were presented and allow the car to be auctioned is the issue. Again, it has NOTHING to do with some P538 you seem to be fixated on...

If the car has such a solid pedigree, why do the German police have it in their possession?

And I'll ask a direct question...who are you?

 

Searching with keywords like "P538", "Expert" and others it seems like all of these guys are similar, low posts too.

Olczyk- http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/137128449-post363.html

l.lococo- http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/137128449-post363.html

j.Harris- http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/137114909-post264.html

J.Harris-http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/137122432-post315.html

ClassicAB-http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/143040023-post19.html

alaind- http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/142549908-post784.html

pascal2012-http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/142403327-post214.html

 

Everybody who knows Iso Grifo knows that the first prototype, the one with vents in the hood (louvers) and a flattened hood scoop, and brushed aluminum or stainless roll bar, dark grey, designed by Giugiaro built by Bertone is a distinctive car from the production cars. Not everyone knows it was sold in Whittier, CA. For history purposes, I would like to know who imported it from Italy and when (my latest clue is that it was an American who acted in spheghetti westerns). It was briefly owned by Ron Kellogg, famed car colletor in Whittier who remembers the customer he sold it to coming to his house to show it to him after it was restored.

Now where the auction company got confused is they might have believed it was the first production car. That is a horse of another color. Just like the '05 Ford GT. Turns out there were at least 32 pre-production Ford GTs made in '2004. So any of those predates the first production Ford GT.

Why do such big mistakes happen (big only if you are a bidder). Because Italian cars like Iso Grifo, DeTomaso and Intermeccanica don't have full time researchers who dedicate their life (and earn a good living I might add) like Marcel Massini does in the Ferrari world. There is no backup for assertions, mis-representation and such, so that's why these mis-represented cars pop up. But I do think auction companies owe it to the audience to pay researchers like Massini (if there are counterparts to him in the "off brands" or can I say "lesser brands") to vet their descriptions. Otherwise much egg-on-face ensues.

 

I get a laugh out of these guys who claim an Iso Grifo, or Bizzarrini has the wrong engine number. What do they think they are talking about--those cars never had engine numbers that matched the chassis like earlier Ferraris. Iso or Bizzarrini just picked up the next engine out of the box from GM and installed the engine. Now if it had a 350 Chevy in it instead of a 327 and you know the 350 was not offered, I could see them complaining but these cars were "exotics built for the masses" not hand-made cars with a lot of engine massaging (except for the race cars) So to say I turned down a Bizzarrini because it "had the wrong 327 engine" is ridiculous. You can get 327 Chevy V8s at junkyards coast to coast. GM made millions of them. How many Lampredi V12s did they make for Ferraris? Now there you are talking an important engine number.

And another thing, if it is a race car, racers go to a race with a couple of spare engines in the truck. You blow the engine in practice, you put in the spare. You think they were worried about, 30 years later, some nit picker is going to say" Hey, we better not change the engine, it will lower the value 30 years from now."

 

Iso did, the chassis number was stamped on the engine ID plate, so VIN and engine matched. Having the original engine helps resale value for all the same reasons as a Ferrari.

In addition Iso and Bizzarrini took these engines apart and worked then to a much higher standard than the stock GM units. so it wasn't like all of them were crate engines. Are you aware that Iso and Bizzarrini made special magnesium oil pans and intake manifolds?

I don't think I have ever heard anyone say that about A3C's or Bizzarrini's but the factories did keep records and I have one of those race engines. It's worth a lot because it raced at Sebring just like if you had a Cobra engine from a famous racing Cobra.

 

Well my own personal comment on this is that IF coys German rep would have spoken to his colleague in Italy this wouldn't have happened as. I am coys Italian rep and have owned bizzarrin 0248 and grifo targa 0289 .. but he never showed these mails to anybody so of course I could have told him the car was dubious, if I had seem the chassis number .. the car was not paid for and is in German police custody at the moment.
Nik hq

 

Well my own personal comment on this is that IF coys German rep would have spoken to his colleague in Italy this wouldn't have happened as. I am coys Italian rep and have owned bizzarrin 0248 and grifo targa 0289 .. but he never showed these mails to anybody so of course I could have told him the car was dubious, if I had seem the chassis number .. the car was not paid for and is in German police custody at the moment.
Nik hq

 

Like this
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Correct!

 

I will explain the reasons Mike Gullet never answers my questions.

Every action has its aims (declared or not). Being a lawyer, I have to deal every day with this kind of strategy. In Mike Gullett’s case, it is so obvious that it almost looks like a “what not to do” class!

I will explain only the facts, without any personal feeling involved.

Facts

Mike Gullet and Gerd Eckstein both belong to the US Iso Bizz club direction

Mike Gullet denounced on Ferrachat some fact that took place more than 30 years ago and therefore deviated its traffic to his own site (declared aim).

On that same web site, with his friend and associate, he discredits two amazing Iso A3C bo201/202 in order to promote their fake cars that were built in Italy at their friend Negri’s. They thought that discrediting two original cars was going to help them selling a new rebuilt car as “there were no more original cars” (undeclared aim).

Talking about their morality, their actions have direct consequences. Not only they have lost all kind of credibility but they also discredited the US club as it is now corrupted (and this is a pitty for the majority of its members). Its image is now spoiled and each one of his intervention is motivated by some hidden reasons. He should just change his alias and disappear.

I have lots of respect for Winston Goodfellow (the director of the Iso bizz club) but I wonder what he thinks about the criminal actions commited by two members of his club. It would be interesting listening to his point of view.

If Coys had sold or imported two fakes P538 with fake chassis numbers in the US, Gullet would have cried foul. But here, he keeps quiet regarding his friend actions. The fact that Gerd Eckstein imported two fake cars is real but we should not say anything because he is one of the director of the club? This is just a great evidence of his very flexible morality. Mike Gullett should clean up his own backyard before taking care of other people’s business because he has a lot to do.

Therefore, when I see him getting all agitated about an Iso Grifo, I am trying to understand his real aim: creating a buzz in order to promote himself.

I find it quite funny that Olczyk who used to belong to the US Iso Bizzclub forum got excluded because he was saying out loud things that a lot of people where thinking. He then expressed himself on Ferrarichat where he is allowed to and there he developed the Bizzarrini forum which became the most important forum about Iso Bizz. US Iso Bizz club shot itself in the foot when it allowed his experts to go somewhere else. Who does go on Iso Bizz club forum? Even important member likes Mike prefers to come here..

Trying to create a diversion by asking me who I am is just a childish move. I think what is important is the facts. I am friend with nobody but I do care about proved facts and I know who to talk to when I need to.

And now, what will happen to those two fake Bizzarrini P538? Will they turn into real cars after a little stay in California? Will the get a patina finish after sitting 5 years in the sun? And when they will take part in a show, what will be their denomination? Replica Bizzarrini Year 2004 ou Bizzarrini P538 1965?


//Here are the documents of the fake imported cars//
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And, as expected, my question goes unanswered....

 

What a soap opera.

This could be turned into a fascinating movie for car guys.

 

Thanks Mike for the updates, you have to wonder about a car company that claims a standard production car is "THE" prototype. It's pretty clear that the two cars have a very different body design.

I stopped by and visited the real 001 last week and it is a very special machine, possibly Bertone's best work. There isn't a bad angle on the whole car.
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For everybody's info Coys German representative never passed on the mails to the other staff at Coy's so the auctioneers was not aware of anything fishy about the car and had to trust his specialist who said is was the prototype, In this case the German representative. If someone had asked me, I could have said straight away that it was'nt but no.one asked... This is what happened. End of story The car did have a strange chassis number but it had had those papers since 1991 so if someone changed it it was done 25 years ago.

Nik H, coys

 

Koy's propaganda

 

The answer is obvious ... Philippe OLCZYK in his usual conversation under fake IDs, crying for having been excluded and trying to promote himself. ''Do not loose opportunity to speak well about yourself, the others will not''. Who may say anything positive about this guy instead of himself ?