Need help deciding on 612 purchase.

So, let me preface this by saying that I have never owned a Ferrari before. I have had a MB AMG and such, but never a Ferrari. I am also new to this message board, so I apologize if I post this message in the wrong section, or missed a FAQ. I looked around, and searched, but didn't see what I was looking for.

I am looking at a 2006 612 Scaglietti with 23,000 miles and a 6 seed manual transmission. It is Grigio Silverstone with Cuoio on the inside, and is in great condition. It just had a major service performed last year. The dealer says that the clutch is 7% worn (so it is like new) and the front and rear brakes have 7mm and 8mm on them. I don't quite understand that - and he couldn't quite explain it to me either. He says that the car fax is clean, but the car has had 5 owners. I don't know if that is a problem, but it bothers me for some reason. Don't know if the car has a problem, or if people just use it as a "jumping board."

So, my main question is reliability of a 2006 car. I have read a lot about these cars, and they seem to be very reliable. Is there anything particular that typically goes wrong at the 8-10 year mark or such? Is there anything that I should look out for? I know what service costs are, but don't really want to spend money on a new engine or such. Also, they are asking $107,000 for it. What are your thoughts about the price point? Finally, they say that I can get a powertrain warranty for $6k/year until the car is 12 years old. I am guessing that I will only put $3,000 miles on it or so a year as it is not my daily driver, so I am not sure if this is needed. The car is at a Ferrari dealer, so that gives me some peace of mind as I am sure they would not keep a "bad" car around.

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

 

Price seems high. Would need to see options and pictures.

Has it had the timing belt service done? If so, when. If not, make them do it now.

If you want to see one of these cars fully disassembled, read my thread:

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/612-599/453306-heres-pic-me-pulling-engine-out-my-612-yesterday.html

 

I have the same color combination in a 2007 HGTS model.

Considering the rarity of the MT models, I think the price is reasonable coming out of a dealer. With 23K miles, it should be sorted. However, you should check the history and make sure required services were completed - especially the major service, considering the miles.

Regardless, make sure you drive it AND make sure you have a PPI done by a third party, if possible.

Good luck.

 

Generally speaking, these cars are indeed very reliable. The items that can go bad occasionally though include the LED instrument panel, the catch on the reverse lever, the window controls are prone to failure, buttons can get sticky and need resurfacing, dash leather can recede, and at 24k miles, if the tie rods haven't been replaced, they will be needed. If the car has seat heaters, they are also prone to problems. Make sure the climate control also works completely, hot and cold, vents opening and closing as selected. That's all that comes to mind off the top of my head at the moment. The only items on the list that are absolutes are the tie rods. The rest won't necessarily happen, just some of the more common complaints.

 

Thank you all for your replies. They listed the following as options on the web site:
~Major Service 5-23-13
~22 Inch MHT Wheels
~Navigation / BOSE Unit
~Yellow Brake Calipers
~Daytona Style Seats
~Heated Front Seats
~Scuderia Ferrari Shields
~Leather Parcel Shelf
~6-speed F1 style paddle shift manual transmission

Now, the wheels look phenomenal on this car. One of my concerns is that if I sell it in a couple of years, will the aftermarket wheels and Bose unit (I assume that it is aftermarket) make it even harder to sell? Do the aftermarket wheels and radio drop the price of the car? I assume that Ferrari buyers would want the original wheels, which they do not have. I will ask about the timing belt and the tie rods as well as the other items that were posted that I should ask.

What do you guys think would be a fair price for this car? I have seen prices for the 612 all over the place, but I have seen 2005 and 2006 model years go for $95k more or less.

Thank you again.

 

The wheels may not be ideal, but the Bose unit is stock.

The price doesn't "seem" off, but it is really hard to say without seeing it. Do more research on cars.com and autotrader to get some comps. However, offer $97K or lower and negotiate up from there.

 

Sorry, one more thing came to mind. I was speaking to a friend of mine today who goes to that Ferrari dealership often, and he says that this particular car has been there for about 2 months. I know that the 612 can be hard to move compared to other models, but that seems like a long time for this car to be sitting around. With this information and the fact that the car has had 5 owners, is this a potential issue or red flag that something is wrong with the car? I am really surprised that the car has not sold as good as it looks. Thanks.

 

Wait a minute - you stated it had a 6-speed manual transmission.

However, based on the description you provided further down, it actually has an F1 Transmission.

In that case, the price is definitely too high. I paid a little less than your car's asking price; but, mine was a 2007 HGTS model, same color combination, plus the front and rear sensors. Mine also had a full major service (over 15K), just prior to purchase.

I drove a base model and an HGTS model, and the latter impressed me much more. It is a substantial upgrade, IMO. I would recommend the HGTS or HGTC versions on 1st generation 612s, unless they have the true gated 6-speed MT.

HGTS Package ($12.877)
19" Modular Wheels
Sport Exhaust
Suspension with sport tuning
Transmission with sport tuning
Chrome exhaust grills on the rear bumper

HGTC Package ($27,273)
Includes all of the HGTS package
19" modular wheels with BALL POLISHED FINISH
CCM(Carbon Ceramic) brakes with 6piston calipers front, 4 piston rear.
Colored brake calipers(Rossa Corsa is default color)

Also, 22 inch wheels are too big for this car - especially up front. I would not go higher than 20 inch front / 21 inch rear.

Here's a recent picture of my 07 612 HGTS with 19" OEM modular wheels:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/127486249@N06/15205669160/in/set-72157648119667556/

 

My car has been for sale longer and has actually had more owners. It may well be the most well sorted example out there, completely reliable and needs nothing. Gorgeous example as well. Don't walk away from a car you like over these factors. If you have the records and do a proper inspection, who cares how many owners prior. And yeah, these cars take time to move.

 

Like Bob said, two months to sell a Ferrari is nothing. Many sit for much, much longer.

 

Thanks for all of the input. Sorry, didn't mean to confuse anyone about the specs. Also, looking at it again, I was off on the price by $3,500 on the high side - was recalling that from memory. Here is the link: 2006 Used Ferrari 612 Scaglietti 2dr Cpe at Scottsdale Ferrari Serving Phoenix, AZ, IID 12102726. I figure that this will make life easier.

Why are 22 inch wheels bad for this car? Will they rub on the wheel wells, or just damage easier? Also, is the F1 transmission bad compared to the 6 speed manual? I thought that the F1 transmission was a good thing, but like I said, I am new to these cars.

As for inspection, if I buy this from a Ferrari dealership, where else would I do an independent inspection? I figure they would know best. A regular mechanic would probably not be a good place to go. The service manuals I can look at though.

I like how this car looks with the wheels. It looks classy, and it really catches my eye. These internet pictures do not do it justice. I will do more research on this model, but will also keep looking. All help is appreciated.

 

The F1 transmission is not bad.

You would need to find a local independent exotic mechanic to do a proper pre-purchase inspection. That wouldn't be difficult in an area like Scottsdale, I wouldn't think.

Wheels are subjective. But obviously the wheels on this car are going to make for a rougher ride. Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that. Personal choice.

 

The radio is not stock from the pictures. The Bose unit was introduced in 2007. I would imagine the ride is going to be pretty rough with 22" wheels. Keep in mind that you always replace the aftermarket with originals for probably around $2k, so not a huge deal. Price seems pretty close to me, maybe should be in the mid-high $90s as long as the belts have been done. I would ask them specifically for the major receipt.

 

Most 22" wheels are ugly, but those actually look good. We tend to have a knee-jerk reaction to 22" wheels because most of them are tasteless and chromed. This set is not. Just make sure your teeth fillings are tight.

 

When buying a Ferrari from a Ferrari dealer do you still need an independent inspection?

 

+1.

Price seems a tad high, IMHO.

Good Luck.

 

The F1 transmission is not bad, and in fact most people prefer it. However, the manual is quite rare, and thus tends to command a higher price. For you, it depends on which you prefer-- I would certainly try driving this car and see what you think.

 

Definitely need to drive it. I don't live in Scottsdale, so I wanted to hash out these items and such before I pay for a plane ticket. I go there every 2 months or so, and just happened to see it when I was there last weekend. All this input really helps. I'll call the sales guy today and ask him to clarify some of this information.

I really like the wheels, but you guys are right, I need to see how they handle. I am surprised that a set of original wheels for this car are $2k -- I thought that they would be way more! I had custom HRE wheels made for my firebird a few years ago, and they cost about $2,500. I thought that Ferrari wheels would be much more! At least I know that I can get them for a decent price. Most of my driving is short distances, but I imaging I should be able to drive the car on the interstate a couple of hours with these wheels once or twice a year without to many problems (ie. going from Texas to Phoenix and such).

As per Tony Montoya's post, do you still need an independent inspection when buying from a Ferrari dealer?

Price wise, it seems that you guys all think that this should be in the mid 90s, and that helps. If everything checks out, and I buy it, I will try to start at $87k or so and hopefully meet somewhere in the middle. Hopefully that will not upset them.

Finally, insurance. My auto insurance won't cover an exotic. They recommended American Modern. I looked them up, and they have bad reviews. Any ideas on good insurance companies. I have a clean record and excellent credit score, but don't want to have any issues if I need them in the future especially with a high end car.

Thanks.

 

I contacted my local State Farm agent and they gladly insured mine for much less than Geico was going to.

 

Just to clarify, I'm referring to an average used set from what would have been 2006 OEM. You can find similar sets with a quick ebay search. Something a little newer or more desirable and the cost goes up. No idea what new OEM would cost, but it would be a lot.

 

Ha! I'm also looking at for 612! I have a 2002 Collectors Edition Trans Am Convertible with a 6 speed Hurst that I purchased new 13 years ago for my 50th birthday!! It now has 3900 miles!! When I was a student at Manhattan College back in the early 70's we would make frequent visits to the New York Auto Show.

 

Absolutely. Would you trust any dealer selling any used car? Well Ferrari dealers are no different. Go to the Arizona forum and ask for a recommendation for a PPI.

BTW, I would highly recommend that you read many, many more threads in this forum and the general forum. You don't even know what you don't know.

 

Most 612's for sale by Ferrari dealers are going to be consigments. They do their own PPI before they accept a car for sale and report to the seller everything they believe is wrong with the car. Anything they are uncomfortable selling would probably be addressed while some things the consignor might not want to address but might be passable might not. I think buying from a Ferrari dealer adds a great level of comfort. I think more importantly would be if that dealer had also been responsible to a large extent for the service of the car and can attest first hand knowledge of the vehicle. Also being owned by a fellow Fchatter who cares about the cars and the reputation also adds a level of comfort. I know of one such car anyway.

 

I personally don't think two months is a long time and wouldn't worry about the number of owners as long as all the mechanicals check out on inspection. I like the look of the wheels as long as you can live with the harsher ride.

One thing you might look into are the paper gaskets. I have an 06 with only 6000 miles and the paper gaskets they originally used on this year had begun to slightly leak. I replaced with the newer style from later versions and it costs me about $1500 parts and labor

Lastly, I use progressive on insurance but am looking to switch as it is quite pricey

 

Progressive was twice as much as American Modern, but has better reviews. I will check with State Farm as noted above and see what they have to say. I'll also add the paper gaskets to the list of things to check. Spoke with the dealer yesterday for about 20 minutes. Quite a nice guy who took the time to answer all of my questions. Waiting for him to email me the car fax as well as some other questions I had for him. I asked him all the things that you guys brought up, and he answered all of them except that he had not heard about issues with the tie rods at 24,000 miles.

I feel better buying such a car from the dealer maybe because they have a reputation to uphold. It gives me a warm fuzzy feeling. If I knew the person, that may be different, but buying blind from ebay makes me a bit worried. As stated by others, a PPI would make me feel even better.