Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Yes, but so much "more" is vulgar pornography (in the good sense)...

 

True.

 

Considering that the 918 has to start with its batteries topped off to complete a lap under 7:00, and that the batteries are completely run dry by the final straight, I wouldn't bet on the 918 getting a second sub-7:00 lap in with 700lbs of dead weight.

 

Ferrari spends gazillions of dollars trying to make their street cars more like race cars...so you and every other car nut out there will have more fun (theoretically), and errr, buy more cars. Getting a street car closer and closer to a race car while maintain usability...THAT's what/why they interconnect the 'two completely different worlds'. And if the 'track focused' machine is ACTUALLY fast on track (there are street cars that do this lap after lap), that's perfect.

 

last time, 7:04-7:07 with 'lap after lap' regen mode, not in all out 'hot lap'. Car is now even faster since they last ran the Ring. New non-low rolling resistance formulated tires are also coming (ie real 'cup' tires). I know you hate 918 and its fans, but it's not entirely "700lbs of dead weight". eeesh.

 

Where you was in the last year of development of the 918?
This Porsche is far below 6,57 now...

 

Just what part of the Enzo was nor is capable of running a full lap of the NS without it's suspension overheating are you unable to understand?

Your second sentence is laughable.

 

you got that right

 

He's still going off of mis-information and outdated info (and dislikes 918-land very much). apparently the 100% professional and non-biased Peloton has not been keeping him apprised of the situation.

 

Exacto.

918 is true KERS so that makes sense. As I said a long time ago our KERS recaptured 50s of 50 HP of otherwise lost energy lap after lap for 24 running race laps of about 7m NS 8m30s NS+GP.

That's the math.

The 918 is a lot faster than many of us thought it would be.



We ran at 2950LBS with about 530 petrol HP.

 

My view about all this 918/P1 “feelings” which is faster, feels faster, etc… started back at the beginning of this year and regarding the 918 – in Valencia, Spain.

This was the time, when most of the first reviews happened for both models. But while P1 was ready, Porsche was under development yet. Needing more depositors, they had to make event after event, nevertheless.

So in Spain happened most of the jurno’s first drivers and lots of future customer ones. While the customers were well informed, that the cars there aren’t final spec and around 700hp, the question is what happened with the jurnos? I doubt they weren’t informed by Porsche, or they just forgot to mention it? Or expected that the final tweaks won’t be significant enough to change things dramatically…? Huge mistake fot them!!!

I mean CH, SS and others, who attended.

 

The Enzo could not complete a full lap because the external resevoirs for the suspension were placed right behind the exhaust system causing the hydraulic fluid to boil.

 

As was pointed out at the time Autocars figures are also high for the Veyron by a similar amount (about 4 seconds I recall). There is no apparent reason for this from what people understand of the method they use. however, it indicates that Autocars figures are only really comparable to Autocars. When is the 918 going to be tested by them? Then we'll get a robust comparison of the two.

So you're discounting the MT figures that don't agree with you, why doesn't that surprise me.

Well TG could have done it but didn't they only tested the following (as far as I can find):

Criteria P1 918

0-60 2.7 2.5 seconds
0-100 5.0 5.0 seconds

0-100-0 9.5 9.4 seconds
60-0 28.9 26.7 meters
100-0 76.3 71.1 meters

30-70 1.9 1.7 seconds

Lateral G 2.15 1.87

Max Speed
on track. 151.9 153.5 mph

Perhaps you could ask your insiders why they didn't and why they stuck to parameters that would, generally, favour the 4wd car. Also, no one has answered the question on why the 918 is as fast in (down force requiring) corners as the P1 but strangely pulling a fair bit less G than the P1.

There are, as yet, no confirmed times for either of the cars on track in a head to head. We can say that the 918 beat the P1 at Anglesey due to Harry Metcalfes tweet, but that's it.

You have your insiders (still waiting for some proof on those by the way) and others have theirs. The rumours from your, as yet unsubstantiated, insiders that it was faster than the P1 at the TG test should be treated as respectfully as the NR ring lap rumours from multiple posters with proven access to McL info.

 

This is true.

Strange Ferrari never did a recall and fixed that issue on Enzo's.

 

word is, 918 is now under 7 min with regen, but official runs haven't commenced. That's effin fast! Don't know if car would survive 10-20 laps, or even 5 laps, but that's a whole nutha conversation. It has without a doubt delivered a nice left hook that Mac did not see coming. When Mac were in 600lb gorilla beating-chest-proclamation mode, hyping up sales, they figured to have a small/comfortable advantage in the performance arena by the time customers were driving their cars to get coffee or what not. And peeps are now getting coffee. That hasn't worked out (but wait, there's more hp there, we can crank up some more boost, and work emotors closer to limits, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc,).

How about getting the darn car to handle bumps better, and especially not get bent out of shape over curbs and rumble strips...jeebers, it's supposed to dominate on the race track, and such things EXIST THERE, how about 'race car level' of downforce at 4inch ride height, and more mechanical grip, especially more mechanical grip. keep on trying to get turbo lag down even more (yes there is lag, despite Chief claiming engine response is on par or better vs F12's V12) while they're at it, contact Porsche supplier and get similar quality info-tainment system. for 1.3m, that would be a nice start.

Besides this entertaining thread, I'm keen on your double o 3 stuff. I need to do better finagling from those in the circle. I need to see pics of this dang car!!! Driving (heeheee) me nuts. 4m all decked out? That's really steep Jim, but looking at how/what/why it's made up of, seems about right. Can't wait to see it.

 

Jim, its not fare to use the MT figures. They are not relevant by today's standards. The test was done by a US validation prototype.

Today's p1 is way faster.

 

Like Porsche did with the 918 you mean? Surely that's a good thing then?

EVO preferred the P1 on track to the 918, they said it pretty clearly, and you aprove of their results. So that must make the 918 even worse right?

 

you MUST stop. Your head must be hurting! I'm just referring to the asterisk, that MT put there themselves (though on in publication of course). Motor Trend cheekily admitted, but of course you missed it, they need to get a car for a 'usual' test, as they did not test the car under the same protocol as they normally do (not even close). They are NOT confident those times will be repeated (but you wouldn't hear that). MT desperately asked for a car, yet again, but that didn't work out this time either, whatever the reason. EVO: many of us knew long before you and other cultists did, and Harry's blip didn't change a thing except hurt your feelings...you FINALLY had to believe it, even if you still may not accept it. You called BS on me and Doom, and others for that. Guess you were pretty annoyed when you couldn't find lap times in the EVO article, then came straight at us with a condescending jab. How's the crow taste? BTW, the confirmed to plenty but not confirmed to public EVO lap time is still going to hurt you quite a bit. Don't say I didn't tell you to brace for it. Do you read much? EVO confirmed at Anglesey that P1 was no faster in 'downforce' sections by their sector times, that's what the discussion was about, and you are pulling out TG test data? Top Gear, you will find out along with other TG peeps when they do the broadcast special. There are a butt load more people that know what happened with TG tests than the 5 whole dudes that know about the 6:37sec Ring lap, so no, it's not exactly the same kind of 'rumor'.

Anything else? Cuz I can do this with you ALL DAY.

 

No. 918 took as much time as was needed to optimized systems (it will continue to be optimized throughout product cycle as per company plan from the get go). It was never delivered to customers and THEN told, wait, version 2.0 is coming with more boost, etc. That's what Mac did. Do you see the difference? EVO preferred P1 as track car yes, but did also say 918 was massive fun, super adjustable, with many superior traits such as steering and chassis balance. And that it was faster. Oof. All those things I griped about were exactly the things that EVO decried as well (but they didn't print that for you nice and tidy like for you to read, sorry). Autocar has also experienced similar. It is simply poor on bumps and curbs, rumble strips, could not outmuscle nor outgrip 918 on the track and lost by a big margin. Just because EVO preferred P1 for track (because a bit more of the theatrics and less weight), with all those faults which made it the slower car, it doesn't mean 918 would is worse. Faulty connection of the two line of thinking.

 

@Scuderia980, in case you haven't noticed, the P1 owners/fanboys have already moved away from objective numbers to subjective feelings about 6'30" ago. It doesn't matter anymore in the future that the P1 will be the slowest of the 3, it only matters to them that the P1 FEELS the fastest. it LOOKS the most futuristic, and that's it's sold out @ 375 units.

 

You're right I did miss it, the magazine not being available here and not really caring enough to find a scan of it on line. Having no cars is a fairly good reason not to suply one I'd have thought.

I haven't called BS on Doom (I can quite believe he has insiders) just you. I have asked for evidence to show your not just talking rubbish but you continually fail to do so. This is what you did to others, and so it's reasonable to ask the same of you. Driftwithme posted pics to prove he has a P1, put up or shut up I think is the term....

A guide to how to do it here - Just met Jason Plato... - PistonHeads
it's a classic.

I was, I wanted to know which was quickest - still do.

What? Where have I claimed the P1 is quicker? All I've done is ask questions, so no crow to eat here.

&

If lots know the times then surely you can leak it here then, please show us your not all mouth.

EVO didn't publish sector times so we can't judge that, that the 918 was as fast in the fast sections at Anglesy BUT slower in than the P1 in the fast bends at the TG track (I forget which track it was) only tells us that the Anglesey track is a track with slower corners. Therefore downforce is less important so playing to the 918 rather than the P1.

Good, I want to know. I expect given your "insiders" you can tell when this will be on then.

About the first thing you've posted we can all believe....

 

I am not sure if we should convert dyno HP like we do with normal cars, think the electric awd system might compute differently, especially the front one as there will be no drivetrain loss, it's a direct drive. Maybe a closer number would be to subtract 125HP from 819 first, then apply the drivetrain estimated loss, then add back the 125 to that result. With a 15% loss, that number comes out to around 940.

 

Well McL haven't, as far as I'm aware said they are going to update the P1. However, if they do do it then they are just continuing the practice they started with the 12C. it's not worse should it be done that way - just different. A bit like Ferrari refusing to let anyone test the Lafe. It's not worse, annoying as it would be nice to see it done, but it's different. Clearly, with your bias, you see it one way - others may view it differently.

Again I can't say as you claim this is unpublished by EVO, so unless you can prove your insider knowledge I take that as BS. The only Autocar test I can find is the Sutcliffe pre-production one, if you have a link to a test of the full customer spec version then I'd be glad to read the article.

Ok, so preferring one doesn't make the other worse. Does this also apply to the road test section as well then?

Out of interest Scuderia980, have you driven a P1, 918 or LaFe? Do you own one? Will buy one? Or are you like Mark Antar and I just an interested by stander?

This is a direct result of a lack hard numbers being published, if the testes would just come out with the times the arguments and BS would stop.

 

Both the 918 and the LaFerrari run true KERS.

And the 918 has the ability to use the front electric motor to provide traction duty while the engine drives the rear motor to recharge on part throttle. The front 125hp motor is always available for traction duty, well at least until they cut it out at 265km/hr.


P1 uses engine power to recharge batteries only, so most of the time it doesn't actually have the whole 903hp, actually not even the full 727hp from the engine either, as the e-motor in it can only either do charging or traction duties and in charging mode it takes hp to run the charger.


Not sure how the LaFerrari works as I haven't study it too closely, but I think it only recharges from regen, not from engine power, so like a true racing KERS setup.

 

Didn't Harry Metcalfe already stated that the 918 is faster on the track? I guess that doesn't matter as you guys only like to say "BUT THE P1 FEELS FASTER AND THEY PREFER IT AS A TRACK CAR!"