Tricky spinning nut on bolt.... | Page 5 | FerrariChat

Tricky spinning nut on bolt....

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by lotusk, Oct 1, 2014.

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  1. lotusk

    lotusk Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,840
    London UK

    Hmmm....original bolt is really narrow
    To drill it, tap it...and then what size bolt will i finally use.

    Great effort with the diagram

    Oh...i looked again.....the new bolt will thread into the tapped out head of the old bolt...
    Verry clever....
    No one suggested that
    Will bear in my mind...should all else fail
     
  2. pnicholasen

    pnicholasen Formula 3

    Jan 14, 2011
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    Paul Nicholasen
    Yeah, sorry about the art quality... No one will mistake me for Rembrandt. I do think it's the easiest and least prone to disaster plan. Cheap too, presuming you own a drill and some bits all you will need extra is the tap and a matching bolt with a good lock washer or a drop of Loctite.
     
  3. Jdubbya

    Jdubbya The $10 Trillion Man
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 28, 2003
    43,691
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    John
    This is great. 6 pages and over 100 posts for one 10mm nut. Gotta love it. I will admit I have had issues with bolts or nuts before but I don't recall having this much issue with one so small. I would have cut the whole thing off by now.

    Dremel with one of these and a cut-off wheel. Done. But it's easy to say sitting here behind my desk. 225-01 Flex Shaft Attachment / Model: 225-01

    Or clamp on a set of vise grips and snap the whole thing off.
     
  4. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

    May 18, 2004
    10,406
    #104 finnerty, Oct 3, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    It (Paul's) is an elegant solution.

    Using a final drill size slightly larger than the major diameter of the original bolt thread would also be a nice way to completely remove the damaged threaded portion all together, leaving just a hex shaped blank (the remaining head only of the original bolt) which would have plenty of material left to drill and tap to the correct size creating a new "captive nut" in the chassis in place of the original "captive bolt".

    This assumes, however, that the bolt is a standard hex head cap type ---- what if it is a button, carriage, or flat head type (often used for such applications, btw :)) ? Well, then you would be screwed ! It would be worth verifying this bolt has a proper head on it first before committing down this path ---- even if you had to drill an adjacent inspection hole in the panel to see the bolt head directly for positive identification ;).

    Then, the only further caution would be to be very careful when drilling / tapping so as not to accidentally break loose the bolt head's attachment (whether it be caged or tack welded in place) ---- if that happens, you would be in a real world of **** :).

    Make sure it is not one of these first !
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  5. pnicholasen

    pnicholasen Formula 3

    Jan 14, 2011
    1,364
    South of Philly
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    Paul Nicholasen
    I think even if it was one of those, as long as one is not over zealous drilling the bolt initially to get rid of the spinning nut, there should be enough material left when the hole is then drilled and tapped into the head of the old bolt to get enough turns of threads to allow good purchase of the new bolt. But of course the only sure thing is death and taxes...
     
  6. lotusk

    lotusk Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,840
    London UK

    This nut and bolt are critical for a RHD car to operate.
    With destroying the bolt and not replacing securely the gas pedal will not pull the cable = no car.

    Just going in cavemanlike on such a crucial part is not my style.
    Easy, easy..
    I'm gonna take my time.....split the nut off, clean up the stud, chase the thread if necessary and put a new original nut back on carefully.

    Now i gotta wait for a nut splitter, tap and die set and the new nut to arrive.
     
  7. lotusk

    lotusk Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,840
    London UK

    Jeez

    Good point.
    What type of bolt head is it back there?
    Anyone taken apart the unibody of a RHD 355 that can tell me?
    No....didn't think so..
    I bet there isn't one man on earth that can recall seeing this bolt head welded to this chassis.
    Maybe 1-2 from the factory if they are still around.
     
  8. lotusk

    lotusk Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,840
    London UK

    Hell
    Now we're at the death and taxes stage!
     
  9. Mark 328

    Mark 328 Formula Junior

    Nov 6, 2003
    510
    Orange, Ca
    Full Name:
    Mark Foley
    When you get the nut-off you may want to replace it with a coupling nut which is like a standard 6mm nut except it is about 14mm tall instead of the standard 3-4mm height of a standard nut.
    It sounds like you are going to try to split the nut either with a Dremel or a nut splitter. After you get the splits on both sides of the nut it would probably work well to put a right angle screw driver in the slot and twist it to open-it-up and pop it off of the stud.
    Good luck and keep us posted.. you may end up being the author of the longest thread of the month:)
     
  10. lotusk

    lotusk Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,840
    London UK

    Thanks Mark
    A coupling nut is another good idea...plenty of threads on that to grab the stud if there's damage.

    Nut splitter i will use
    Scared that if i dremel the nut off i could accidently do more damage to the stud's thread.

    Hoping that once the xxxx nut is off that a quick wire brush, wd40 spray on the stud will enable a new nut to work.

    If not i will attempt to chase the thread with the correct die.
    If that fails i will attempt to rethread the bolt with a hexagon die attached to a socket..
    If that files i will sell the car and buy a porsche.
    Not

    Next week continues.
     
  11. lotusk

    lotusk Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,840
    London UK
    #111 lotusk, Oct 6, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  12. lotusk

    lotusk Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,840
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    #112 lotusk, Oct 6, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here's the bolt....

    Do you guys think I can 'chase' this sorry looking bugger out with a 6mm die to accept a new nut...or .....????
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  13. lotusk

    lotusk Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,840
    London UK
    Maybe put some washers behind a new nut to pack it out...is there enough good thread at the end of the bolt though?
     
  14. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 10, 2003
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    I would try the die first. If you don't get threads on the entire bolt, you might at least get some on the outer section of the bolt. It doesn't look like there's anything to lose by trying, but that is one beat to **** bolt.

    Failing that, you still might get enough new thread to catch the end with a nut. You can use a couple of the same nuts instead of washers, then put the ant-vibration nut on the end of the bolt.
     
  15. lotusk

    lotusk Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,840
    London UK

    Jeez
     
  16. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    Tim Keseluk
    Washers, new nut, on to the next problem.
     
  17. lotusk

    lotusk Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
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    U reckon Tim...

    Simple as that?
     
  18. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #118 dm_n_stuff, Oct 6, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    lotsa washers, eh?

    Maybe chase the end of the bolt to clean up the threads?

    D
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  19. lotusk

    lotusk Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
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    #119 lotusk, Oct 6, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2014

    Yes i am waiting for the die to arrive to do the chasing....

    I guess i use the 6mm die as the bolt is a M6?
    Never used a die before actually.
     
  20. afwrench

    afwrench Formula Junior

    Nov 24, 2004
    593
    NY
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Bugger up a couple of trash bolts and practice first. Mike
     
  21. lotusk

    lotusk Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,840
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    Good idea
    Will do
     
  22. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

    May 18, 2004
    10,406
    #122 finnerty, Oct 6, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I'll be surprised if you can get any / enough usable threads, of the original diameter, on that thing --- looks pretty pared down --- also, even if you can get some workable threads near end, you likely will not have enough length to get the locking element of a Nyloc nut to engage anything, so you can substitute some lock washers underneath it I suppose. But, it won't hurt to try.... other than wasted time when it doesn't work.

    Personally, I'd go straight to cutting new threads one size down. If that does not work ---- proceed right to Paul's idea (chopping the bolt shank, and tapping the remaining head into a nut). Incidentally, looks like you have a perfect built-in inspection hole right there to visualize exactly what sort of bolt head you are dealing with ;).
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  23. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

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    Well done.
     
  24. lotusk

    lotusk Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,840
    London UK
    Thanks

    But look at the state of that bolt.

    I am very upset that i allowed this to happen.
    I had no idea that nut was eating up the thread...i was using a socket to tighten it down and could not tell by feel that this was occuring.

    Gotta be very careful with nylocs.
     
  25. lotusk

    lotusk Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,840
    London UK

    As i cannot use the handles on a die to turn it to cut the threads down to M5 from M6 due to the lack of space can i use a hexagonal die with a socket?
     

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