Advice for Potential First-Time 1960s Ferrari Owner

F-Chatters:

I'm looking for a little advice. I currently own an F430 and a California GT and I'm now considering moving from the modern cars to a 1960s era car. I'm mostly interested in the 330 GTC - it's in my price range and seems like a great option for me overall.

However, purchasing a 40 year old car gives me a little trepidation. I want to be able to use the car - if nothing else to drive from the Bay Area to Tahoe during the summer. And while I'm willing to put up with some pain of ownership, I'd prefer a car that is more-or-less reliable if well maintained. That's where I need your help. I don't know anyone who has owned one of these to get a first hand account of ownership. What can I expect? What are the limitations? What does annual service entail (not so much worried about cost - more about what do I need to do)? Does it need it's oil changed every 3 months even if sitting still? Does it need to be driven every 2 weeks to stay healthy? How well should I expect to know my mechanic at the end of all this?

I've read threads on here, Covello, Forza, Ferrari L'Opera, etc - and I'm well versed in what the car is. But I'm still not well versed in the experience of owning and driving one of these machines.

Are there any 330 GTC owners (or owners of cars with similar mechanicals) willing to speak to me to give me a flavor for what I'd be getting into?

Thanks so much!
Jim

Sports Cars I've owned or own, in case that helps with guidance:
- 1999 360 Modena F1
- 2000 Honda S2000
- 2007 F430 F1
- 2010 California GT

 

the first thing you will notice is the 330 GTC is old school and will feel primitive when compared to your current cars... they are great driving cars but comparatively they will give you what seems like a raw kick in the backside.... in a good way, it's all good, but there is a large difference in what you perceive while driving...still all good... "moving from a modern car"... does that mean replace what you have with a 330 GTC... the best way to enjoy the 330 is to add it to what you are currently driving, not replacing... it will add more smiles to what you already have

I used my 330 as a daily driver for many years putting on an obscene amount of miles without a hiccup. I had nothing break, just changed oil, bought gas and tires, in over 100,000 miles of driving...the car is very reliable to the point of being bullet proof... while wire wheels look fantastic, the mag wheels do not get out of tune adding pleasure to daily high mileage driving

 

A GTC is a pleasure to own and a special joy to drive. I've owned mine for 8 years and drive it all the time, including long trips. I wouldn't hesitate to take it cross country.

Off the top of my head:

The most important thing of course is to get a really good car. It's probably best to pay up for the best one you can find. That's probably cheaper than getting one with issues and making it right.

Mechanical Fuel Pump - These need to be set up just right to function properly, but once done are reliable for many thousands of miles. If you don't know it's history and intend taking the car on long trips it's probably worth rebuilding it properly. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/vintage-thru-365-gtc4-sponsored-vintage-driving-machines/453686-fispa-mechanical-fuel-pump.html

Suspension - To get the most pleasure out of driving the car the suspension bushings, tie rods, ball joints and shocks need to all be in good shape. If the bushings look at all dried and cracked rebuild the whole lot. It's not a huge expense, but makes the car a sheer pleasure to drive. The bushings and all are readily available but the shocks aren't, fortunately Koni still rebuilds them.

Blinker stalk - Very fragile as they age, ask me how I know! No longer available, but O.D.D. parts rebuilt mine beautifully. O.D.D Parts - Home

That's just of the top of my head based on my experience. The engine, transmission, cooling, brakes and electric systems have all been very reliable for me. During my ownership I have only had to rebuild both fuel pumps (mechanical and electric), replace the transaxle seals to fix a slow leak (easy service transaxle remains in) and replace the clutch due to normal wear. Other than that, it's just been oil and sparkplugs, which I enjoy doing myself. There's tons of experience and wisdom here so I'm sure other owners will chip in. Bob Zambelli has put over 150,000 miles on his GTC and does all his own maintenance, even rebuilt the engine himself!

I absolutely love my GTC and am happy to share my experiences and answer questions, feel to drop me a PM. Good luck in your search

 

You live in an area with the some of best vintage Ferrari restoration shops.
Before you buy anything I would call Patrick Ottis in Berkeley.

 

Bottom line, these are now almost 50 year old cars, so things are likely to break every now and then. Sometimes it's an easy fix, sometimes you're waiting months for a part. If you're used to out-of-warranty maintenance and repair costs for new models paid at your local Ferrari dealer, I think you won't be too surprised at the cost of maintaining an older example. The bigger issue might be finding a mechanic with the time to expediently work on it- depending on what needs to be done, you might not have a "drop-off Monday, pick up Friday" scenario.

Just based on my experience, a 330 GTC is one of the more usable GTs of the era, and demands slightly less of your attention while driving than some earlier models. Not a super fast car, but still satisfying. You won't get to Tahoe and back on a tank of gas, but so what.

If you want the kick-in-your-pants feel and you can tolerate being seen in public without side vents, the 365GTC will feel much faster, again just based on my experience. Of the two, I prefer the performance of the 365 for spirited driving. But the standard clutch is heavier, and the engine runs hotter, so I don't prefer driving it for as long. These days, both can be had in the same price range, seems like.

 

As others have said already, you are lucky because you live so close to the best Ferrari people on the U.S. West Coast. Call Patrick Ottis in Berkeley. He simply is the best and there is no alternative. Be prepared to spend a bit more and do not compromise. Have Patrick Ottis fly in for an inspection before you buy your 330 GTC.

Marcel Massini

 

Don't be afraid of a 60's era car, when sorted out they can be as reliable as a modern car, but with more maintenance. Very few folks pound these cars on a daily basis anymore so they do well with the relatively light use required of a collector car.

At a bare minimum drive it hard every few weeks, change the brake fluid every couple of years, follow the recommended maintenance schedule and lubrication chart, keep an ear out for funny noises, pay attention to leaks, a few drops of oil or trans fluid are no big deal but coolant leaks need to be fixed right away. Get in the habit of checking the oil frequently, this will give you an excuse to look at the engine and catch the small things that can leave you stranded, loose wires, loose belt, wet hoses, etc. Glance at the gauges frequently, there are no chimes or idiot lights to save you.

You can have a great mechanic but he's not the one who will be waiting on the side of the road for the flatbed because the alternator belt got loose and broke. An old car requires a bit more responsibility.

After owning a multitude of 60's era Porsches and other sports cars I got a 330 GTC, WOW! what a revelation, it really is as good as people say (for a 60's car) It's got great steering, good power and a decent ride with predictable handling. It climbs a mountain grade with ease. It also has a roomy interior and good sized trunk for a comfortable weekend tour.

 

Having driven vintage Ferraris for thousand of miles on open road , there is nothing to fear driving a 50 or 60 years old car on the road ( preferably though not motorway, not because the car can't do it, but because other are distracted and dangerous, and no fun if not using the gearbox to downshift, put power in corners etc all the essence of driving vs being driven).

Still you need a mobile phone and some assistance network in case something happens unless you are a mechanic yourself, and carry points, coils, tape, tools and know how to use them.

Still cars should be tested long distance by your preferred mechanic and then you are likely to be safe. I have driven long distance 250MM, TDF and of course Lusso, SWB , 275 GTB and Daytona and even a Tour Auto in a 250 LM without assistance as a matter of principle...this is 1500 miles on semi race speed, so yes a well prepared Ferrari is close to bullet proof ( but I also drove a Jaguar E type for 25 years on open road and never had a problem either..)

But as other said be careful in what you buy, either buy the best and be sure everything has been properly done, or do everything with the best people and you will be safe and happy for the rest of your life. Anything in between will be a source of headache, and likely of overspending too as restoring a car backwards ie by fixing the deficiencies one after the other is a painful and costly and totally unsatisfactory process. It can also terminate relationship, on one of our first date my wife noticed the Alfa Romeo Giulietta spider I was driving was smelling burnt plastic,,well the wiring of the lights was burning and we had to drive at night 20 miles on a motorway without lights,,,almost terminated our relationship. And being stuck on a motorway with overheating engine or a breakdown is not nice for the family and potentially dangerous too.

And remember one key thing, braking distances have changed massively in last 50 years so even with best disc brakes of the sixties expect twice the braking distance of a modern car, so never follow a modern car too close as they can brake much harder than you will be able too. In my experience, braking distance is the most significant change in feeling and technology between the sixties and today,everything else is relatively similar except noise level, but you get used to it.

In other words enjoying a classic car is a real experience, and a rewarding one as it is not just going to A to B but really enjoying the driving. But not visiting every mechanic on the way, specially as except for Italy and UK there are less and less of them alongside the roads.

A last comment, when I bought my first Ferrari, long long time ago, Adrian Hamilton, a real gentleman turned dealer gave me the keys ( before buying the car) and told me drive as long as needed ,,but if more than 50 miles put some gas in it! And I went alone,,,and of course I bought the car. You may not find such trusting people today,,,but I would recommend you find a friend or someone in a Ferrari club or somewhere to allow you to drive a classic Ferrari or a 330GTC and preferably a good one, so you will know what to expect when you test drive one and you drive yours!

Enjoy the process, hunting for cars is more than half the fun of ownership,,,this is why I am still hunting after 28 cars,,,

 

I would see if Patrick Ottis and Co are available to perform a PPI if you find a car or better yet- if they know of one coming to market that they've serviced.
They are right up San Pablo from Oakland and you couldn't be in better hands.

Motob http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/members/1711.html
(Brian Brown from Ottis) is a frequent contributor on here and regularly shares his encyclopedic knowledge and expertise.

Also, here's a link to Fchatter Bob Zambelli's thread (one of a series) on his 330 GTC.
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/vintage-thru-365-gtc4-sponsored-vintage-driving-machines/325485-fun-330-gtc-memorial-day-weekend.html

Best of luck!

 

I own a 365GT 2+2, and I've driven it to Tahoe from Portland! I wouldn't worry about it either, although you might allot a bit of local driving to get any kinks out before taking it on a long trip. Bay area to Tahoe is nothing, though, for that car.

I think you'll find the service requirements are actually LESS than on the modern cars. I change the oil in mine once a year (unless I do some really long trips), fix the odd thing, and that's about it. There are no timing belts to change, and once the carbs are set up properly, they shouldn't require much, if anything.

 

F-chatters - Thank you all for sharing your thoughts on classic Ferrari ownership. This has been incredibly useful for me!

To answer/clarify a few things that have been asked:

- My initial inclination is to sell both my F430 and California and purchase a 330 GTC. However, I may consider keeping the California. My wife is hoping to get a garage space back in this move, but that might be manageable.
- Patrick Ottis - I totally agree with all the positive sentiment and I'm well aware of his shop and have visited it and him in the past just to learn about what might be out there. I definitely hope to have him look at anything I might consider purchasing and I'd likely have him maintain it over the long term.

I'm just starting my search - but you never know when the right car will appear - so it could be short or it could be long. And I may get cold feet - despite all the reassurances you've provided. Guess we'll see!!

Thanks again for all the advice and if I do make a move and purchase one I'll certainly report back here! All the best!

 

Someone told me recently that Wayne Carini at F40 had or was getting in a decent one in an unusual color. FYI

 

There is one now... 1967 Ferrari 330GTC at F40 Motorsports in Portland, CT

 

That's funny, about two months ago, this was listed for $750,000 or offer, described as average "driver" condition throughout. I guess if something hasn't sold the natural tendency should be to raise the price . . . . Or, maybe they got a shrewd "investor" to buy it who is already hoping to flip it for a little profit!

 

I love my GTC and echo the good comments posted. I would add only that just like the 2+2 cars, GTCs had periods when their maintenance cost - to - resale value was an unfavorable ratio and many cars had corners cut. So diligence is more important than ever.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

He wants 825k for the car. Wait till the market corrects and pick one up for 500k. These prices are insane.

 

I second the sentiments of M. Massini. You will not find a more knowledgeable, honest or capable man in the vintage Ferrari world than Mr. Ottis. He found both of the 330 GTC's that I have owned and maintains my current car. He is also a truly wonderful person.

 

I would dip a toe in before taking the full plunge. It's a lot of money to be throwing around if you're not fully certain. Perhaps get an older Mercedes. If you want to do it in stages, you could start with something from the 80s/90s and get a 560SEC (W126 chassis code). If you want 60s, go spend $30k on a 280SE (Mercedes Benz 200 Series | eBay). See if you like the feel of an older car and then you can get an Fcar.

 

I've owned my 1969 365 GTC for six years and put around 7,000 miles on it. It's been more reliable than my 2004 Mercedes SL600--but admittedly that's a pretty low bar. I've had to flatbed the car home once when it blew a heater core hose midway through a group drive (I wondered if ringing it up to six grand in second and third gears had anything to do with that), bail out of another event when the starter motor quit when it got heat soaked (I wasn't confident I could find enough inclines to bump start the car throughout the day), and one more event when the alternator died and I was running with lights, wipers, and rad fans. I don't think that's too bad for a 45 year old car. Now, the car was supposedly restored in 1986, so at the best the parts that went south were 28 years old, and they could have been as old as 45 if they weren't replaced during the resto. Although as other posters have mentioned, the GTC is not without shortcomings, especially compared to modern cars, it is a complete kick to drive. Jim, if you want to invest in a plane ride, or have frequent flyer miles to burn, c'mon east and we'll play with my GTC.
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Don

Is your GTC in color Azzurro (2.443.648)?

Julius

 

Yes, but I don't know the paint code number. The color in the photo I posted may be a bit off. I don't think the car looks quite that blue in the metal. It's more of a silver blue.

 

Great advice.

 

interest me because my 365 GTC was born in Azzurro also.

thanks

Julius

 

Thanks for everyone's advice here! I have been looking at 330 GTCs off and on for almost 2 years, but only after seeing a car that really caught my interest did I get super excited about moving forward. That led to my post, as a final round of due diligence. I'm thrilled to say that I'm now the proud owner of a 1966 330 GTC. She arrived at my home yesterday and I took her for a nice 40 mile jaunt. What fun!

She isn't perfect, but she's in solid mechanical condition - perfect for me to use as a weekend driver. And over time I'll seek out the little bit-parts that are missing and have a few niggling issues addressed. In the meantime, I plan to just drive her.

More details to follow, but here is a pict. Thanks to everyone who took the time to answer my questions!
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Congratulations! It looks like a nice acquisition. I've been chasing one myself with no luck.