Just a thought about the newer Ferraris going to turbo engines....

Mike,

Some good points.

I agree with your 2nd point about today's younger drivers probably having less interest in MT down the road. Although, that could be rectified IF Ferrari starts to produce MT again.

However, I think its a stretch to compare Carbed vs EFI to MT vs DCT (or F1). The way you operate a car with MT vs a car with sequential paddle shifter (AUTO available) is quite different. EFI vs Carb has a very small effect on the way you drive the car; it probably has a greater effect on maintaining it.

 

Disc brakes too, right?

 

Fair point Adam and I agree. You don't have to learn how to drive an EFI. But there are still some purists who don't want to drive an EFI because it's "not the same." Same with the air-cooled Porsche purists. The point is that all these antiquated "features," including MT, are a *very* niche market at this point, and that niche is shrinking every day.

Ferrari doesn't produce MTs anymore for one very simple reason - there is (essentially) no demand for them. In the last year of the 430 only 1% of them were ordered with MT. The Gallardo was also close to zero % ordered with MT, which is why the Huracan won't be offered with it.

So the demand is already close to zero, and it's getting closer with every passing year. Sad maybe, but true. The MT is a dinosaur.

I totally appreciate buying an MT today because we love driving them. But I wouldn't bank on the MT holding its value better in the long run.

(I didn't expect this to become such an interesting thread)

 

Geez..you guys will latch on to anything. In other words..THE CAR does not require trips to the gas station. I guess I should have been more clear in my post.

 

This sounds like a socialist view related to cars. A redistribution of sorts.

So, a collector is not an enthusiast ?

Who do you think fixes/ restores all these cars when they are used and driven in the rain and in pieces when the enthusiast swaps the cheapest parts possible in the world just to keep it running.

Why do you care if others get the opportunity to enjoy these cars other than people who earned it with their hard earned dollars ?

 

And they are trying to tell you that you need gas to produce electricity for Tesla.

 

Nobody is more against socialism than me! But Adam merely said *he* would *prefer* to see the cars driven in (I thought) a respectful way. He never said a collector is not an enthusiast or any less important.

I happen to agree with Adam, but I respect and appreciate your perspective too.

 

So nutshack you agree with what he says below - because that is the main part of his message in his post. Don't just cherry pick one piece.
Furthermore, I suggest the both of you if you own a Ferrari, feel free to sell them cheaper than what dealers are asking so you can both attain your dream of others to enjoy the experience. Nothing says helping your fellow man more than giving of yourself first, right ?

You know what I would much rather see southnc. I would rather see the area you live in depreciate because I think it's overpriced , this way many more people can enjoy and appreciate your neighborhood, and enjoy the experience to move in. Most of your area is currently over priced IMO.

 

I just didn't read Adam's comment as being disrespectful or inflammatory (or certainly not socialist! . *he* (not you) is sharing his opinion that having more people enjoy the car is more important to *him* as an enthusiast.

I also appreciate your perspective, Red. Your comments on the market are always insightful and well-reasoned.

For the record, I prefer the value of my 360 to go up, not down. But if it depreciates I'm still happy because I for sure will have enjoyed driving it. That's why I feel driving the cars is the best approach (again, for *me*) because I can't lose.

Peace to all! (in a capitalist way)

 

I'm sorry if you misunderstood me. That is not what I was trying to convey.

BTW, I have great respect for those who restore the cars. I know that is an extremely difficult task and many of the results are breathtaking.

If you collect the cars to enjoy (read: drive), then great. If your buying the cars strictly to drive up the prices and reduce availability, then I have a concern. Coveting is an unfortunate trait of humans, sadly.

 

Guy who collect cars because of economic interests IS NOT CAR ENTHUSIAST. He is looking in those cars as his own stocks, not as machines that he should drive as much as possible so they could deliver him driving plesure and visual experience in first place.

 

The Tesla debate -- where the coal smoke stack from the generating plant is out of sight and out of mind -- fuels (nudge nudge) my biggest Big Brother concern.

Not that classic cars will be regulated off the market.

But that the younger generation will be conditioned to shun them.

Judging from traffic in the DC area, people already seem to feel that competence is elitist, and knowing how to go around a corner without a full stop or how to stop without slowing for three blocks is "politically incorrect".

Not to mention the people terrified of accelerating due to (WWII era) warnings of "wasting fuel" (in the accelerator pump --- in the carburetors that came off cars 30 years ago).

"It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so."

When I lived in MA, the toddlers loved the car, but the tweens, who'd been through algored sciences in public school, thought nothing of the car as a car, only that it was shiny.

Even back in my day, I'd been racing for two years when the public school signed me up for "driver's ed" ... from a gym teacher who didn't know how to open the hood, much less check the oil.


It's not paddle shifters or turbos that define the motoring future. It's mandatory tire pressure monitors and seat belt buzzers.
And insurance nanny-bot plugs.
It's "cross-overs" made for people who don't know how to drive.


When the roads are covered by cell phone accessories instead of drivers, who is going to want a sports car?

Who will want a capable car, when none of the drivers are capable?

And where can you drive them? Not only are there delivery trucks parked in every travel lane at rush hour, but last night I encountered not one but two private cars just parked in the middle of the road. In a six mile drive.
(The disturbing part was how long it took other drivers to think of going around the parked cars.)

 

Your initial post didn't come across to me as you described, thank you for clarifying.

 

All true. Think of the skill required to drive say a 50'S sedan and not crash in 2 blocks.
So convenience has ruined the car as a driving pleasure tool. At this point we will accelrate as fast as possible to robotised cars for convenience if nothing else.

What pleasure is there to be gained in driving bumper to bumper at 50 mph, which is most people commute. There are few open roads, and if you sue them with vigor in say virginia you go to jail. Modern sports cars are so capable and bland that to gain enjoyment from the drive the speeds needed to be acheived are extremly high. Couple thta with genral driving incompetrance...

One possible future cars will be like horses, and the current race track cpountry clubs are the beginning of ahwole new breed. Imagine car ****ry clubs with drive in movies drag strip off orad courses a track and highway section a mountain section etc. Old cars would be kept and run there, and newer crars free of regulation better suited to that enviroment.


And or we could have auto drive cars, also capable of self drive. IF EPS can be developed enough there is no reason why feedback cannot return to the wheel. The VW XL1 looked pretty cool a very lighweight car powered by a ducati v twin. Basicaky cars in the future may be able to auto drive self drive. Will probably be lighter and as a unintended consequence able to handle betetr, feedback can be programed in.

90% of drivers ownt care, to them a car is an appliance, a personal transport pod. But there will be a niche for cars thta can be driven and are a joy to drive. If there is demmand the market wll figur it out. One thing we know, feedback and performance may sell in smaller numbers but it sells for profitable premiums. Just ask Chevy wtht he Z28 the M diviosn at BMW AMG at mercedes etc.

Sooner or later, Ferrari and Porche will figure out, thta if you make a 2 seat car that is a as bland to drive as a lexus your usp boils down to prestige and design. Paper performance can only take you so far when a amg merc on the street already does more than is unreasonaobly possible. The future of sprtscars is in building viceral machines, as ducati has amply proven with motorcycles which are not necessarily the fastest but are all a round maybe the most fun to ride look at and listen too. When ferrari buids its verion of a nked bike, the Ducati Monster of ferraris the sportscar will be back, and if they wnat to expand sales that is the way to go.

 

As Napolis, aka Jim Glickenhaus so aptly states in his sig: "Not putting miles on your Ferrari is like not having sex with your Girl Friend so she'll be more desirable to her next Boy Friend."

 

I still long for a drive in an original XKE, crash box (tranny) and all.
It is very satisfying to be able to shift without grinding the gear.....

 

Agree
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