"F1 should drop V6s for old V8 engines - Red Bull's Christian Horner"

Well it's an opinion, and having been up close to a multi cylindered F1 naturally aspirated engine, I can assure you I valued the ability to carry on being able to retain my hearing, so I succumed to ear plugs, somewhat negating this point of view.

I have been and still am in the music industry, and believe me that does and can wreck eardrums.

 

100% agree. F1 is supposed to be cutting edge. It's now chaceing production car tech..and it's falling well behind.

 

I agree that no fans means no F1, but I don't think you are fully understanding what I meant.

There are different types of entertained. Entertainment works best when there is some drama, something worthwhile or meaningful to watch. Meaningful comes from the sporting side. This is why we all enjoy watching Cricket, Rugby, Soccer, etc. It is great entertainment not because they are amazing athetics but because the result of the game matters to us.

Bernie through his muddling with the rules to make it temporarily more entertaining has reduced the meaningfulness of the result. I, for one, believe ocassionally we have the wool pulled over our eyes and Bernie talks to the right people (rule makers is one example) to ensure he gets the result he wants to maximise the drama. This directly relates to less meaning with the result and I cannot be bothered watching.
Pete

 

Why is that?

Likely because the technology is not relevant to their world like it was to ours ... hybrid cars bring that relevance back.
Pete

 

We all have our pet likes and dislikes. At the end of the day, as a couple of people have said, without fans there is no F1.

Sticking our heads in the sand will ensure more demise. Ditto for trying to excuse or not recognise the stupid decisions that got us here.

The sound is gone and people don't like it.
The trend in getting slower and slower continues (every race this year has been slower unless the track and/or tires were changed to give a boost).

People don't like what's being served up to them.

US GP attendance was down this year >>source<<

TV ratings in some countries have been down by as much as 50% and 20% >>source<<

The German GP was run, with a German car given an unassailable advantage to the title since race1. It also had a German leading the WDC, yet the day of the race less people watched than usually turn up to Silverstone practice days. >>source<<

And to accentuate it all, how embarrassing for this to be a crowd at an F1 race.
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Obviously what happens on the track matters most...but my point is the sound was an integral part of the F1 experience (ESPECIALLY live) and has been for decades.

 

You are correct sir.

 

+1

 

Despite the 100's of millions spent on research and despite the 100's of world class engineers in the sport they can't make the engine louder?

I would think addressing the decibel level of the new engines are the least of their problems, along with the noses.

It seems most in the paddock want V8's because they are cheaper. Plain and simple.

 

Moving back to louder engines isn't what the FIA has in mind.

I am not sure atmospheric V8 would be cheaper than turbos. Turbo has always been the cheapest way to get more power. The energy recovery stuff has made power unit a lot more complex to design and seems to cost a lot to develop.

But having just changed the rules, I don't expect F1 to abandon the present formula to start all over again in the near future.

 

Maybe they should tell the manufacturers if they want to get into a spending war it's fine as long as they each provide up to two additional teams with engines at a set $5M per season or so and just eat the losses. That way the grid stays full and they can spend all they want on their own/primary teams.

As for the sound, just remove all fuel restrictions and raise the RPM limit to 18,000. Job done.

 

A two tiers formula? That's a solution.

We had that when the turbo arrived in F1, but only for a short period.

 

Not two tiers. Everyone gets the same engine. But if the manufacturers want to build engines that only their own team (or the main partner team as in the case of McLaren/Honda) can afford, they shouldn't be allowed to bankrupt the rest of the grid and reduce F1 to an 8-car field. Set a reasonable cap on what they can charge the rest to buy their engines.

 

This is agree with. Limit fuel tank size and let the teams use the fuel as they please.
Pete

 

Why not let teams choose? Take your old V8 off the shelf and race it, or use your new V6? Power's about the same. It wouldn't add to development costs; we'd just say "pick your favorite frozen engine."

 

I think it was Ron Dennis who complained that they don't quite get the same engine setup performance as a mere customer team from an engine supplier now. That is unlikely to change.

In terms of the scenario of allowing them to develop and spend on engine tech freely, I doubt many would be happy giving $25m+ units to customers for just $5m in order to be given that freedom.

Mercedes have already said they have no interest in an engine spending war nor do they want a return to the V8's. Either outcome would likely see them depart. Given Ferrari's financial position with being spun off from Fiat and given a $2.5b bill for the pleasure, Renault's prickly relationship with Red Bull and Honda just returning to the sport, I'm not sure they have the long term stomach for a 'gloves off' engine spending war either, nor do I think they would sign up to an agreement that would see them handing over units to the back markers for $5m a piece.

The whole thing is a mess.

 

Actually going from single to twin turbos will solve the problem....

 

Which is what it originally was. Twin turbo GDI.

 

It would probably help, but; They're extracting *much* more energy these days than before; energy from heat, kinetic energy of the flow etc.

IIRC, it was the Audi guys, when asked about the lack of noise from the diesels, who noted (rightly of course) that "noise is simply wasted energy"......

Harvest that wasted energy for more 'useful' purposes, and they get quieter......

Cheers,
Ian

 

As I read the Ron Dennis statement, what he was actually saying was that as a customer, your chassis/power unit combination is far more compromised than that of a team that manufactures both it's own chassis and power unit (as with Mercedes and Ferrari), and that if you're just one of many customers then you are further compromised.

Essentially he was justifying McLaren's move away from Mercedes, and their desire to be the primary team that Honda manufactures power units for. Basically the Honda power unit will be designed to suit the McLaren and any other team wanting Honda power units will have to compromise their chassis design.

I did not read it as Ron Dennis stating the the customer power units from Mercedes are in any way deficient to those used by Mercedes themselves, he was merely stating that Mercedes can make better use of the power unit.

 

Unfortunately, that statement only makes sense. I don't expect any engine changes for a few years. The MB advantage now is in the ERS, not the engine. So hopefully the other top teams will catch up next season, to at least have a semblance of competition.

 

Not really... two small mufflers instead of one larger. The turbos muffle the sound and trap the harmonics. Really the only way to change the tune is to change the pulse and the velocity. Also the length and diamter, but for the most part the exhaust in and of itself are pretty regulated for placement and size etc in F1

 

+1

 

But you have to admit that it's no mere coincidence that the previous 1500 cc V6 twin turbo generation was noticeably louder than the present 1600cc V6 single turbo units.

 

Everything about f1 is technically wasted energy I (and most fans) wish they'd waste a bit more and bring back the sound.