Alfa 4C - "Without The Heart We Would Be Mere Machines"

This thread has become a one man rant thread.

Ok, the Alfa has no manual. Neither do Ferrari's or Lambo's or McLarens or Nissan's Godzilla or the Pagani Huayara or the Toyota super car or the upcoming Acura super car.

Car makers are all idiots.

 

Look back in this thread where people were saying the 4c is the best thing since sliced bread. Yet we had media accounts fairly consistently criticising substantive misses in the 4c execution esp dynamicaly. Issues that alfalafa seems to be adressing in ver 2.0

We also have a failry consistent call by manny on fchat for manual versions of various cars. These people are denounced as luddities or told that the volume does not justify.

Today I was behind a 3 series convertible, I wonder what percentage of 3 series are convertible. Clealy there is a buisness model at some very scessful car companies to offer somethig with a relatively low yet statisticaly significant takep rate. I think Alfa woudl love BMWs sucess rate or dgrowth rate on any model

The two most prolific sportcars produced are the vette and miata, guess what they offer.

Now many so called sportscars today are really just small stylish luxury sedans and many of us lament this, but that si the market where most volume is. The 4c is clearly not in that category and there is a significant percentage of people in the hard core sportscar group who are going to buy a 4c, there is also a significant percentage of people in this group who ask for a stick. They ask for a stick not because its faster or more conventient, but because it is a touch and sensory interface with the machine, and these viceral interfaces are part of why such machines are bought and used. Nothing worng with that view or askign for such a feature.

Yet there is a signbificant group that feels threatened by the potential offering of such a feature. As to why so many "fast" cars do not offer this. The answers may lay in why the majority of peopel buy fast cars, and the ease of which a pdk can now be certified vs a stick.

From where I sit, and its just my opnion the 4c would be a far more appealing car if.

1) from what we read, the suspension were more fully sorted, more akin to what lotus offers..
2) the mtor had some type of class leading power. MB has 350hp turbo 4s.
3) Its sang with a soprano voice
4) not critical if the above present , but a stick option would be nice.

Pretty much every indication is that Alfa is adressing points 1-3 above, even though many here have proclaimed the 4c the ideal machine as is.

 

I spoke to a local dealer this afternoon about their allocation, they should have a car by the end of the month. I think they are only getting three 4C's for the 2014 complete with a 10 buyer list. Estimated price is in the mid 70's now, (without options) so much for being in the starter C7 Corvette range.

 

The launch editions have all been $70s. But The base edition to follow starts at $53k iirc.

 

Wish they built a stripped base with a manual and few options.

 

One just sold in LA for $90K

 

No doubt the same guy who bought one of the very first Miatas for $50K or whatever back in the day.

 

So it should maintain its value.

A base model with sport exhaust and the telephone dial wheels is all ones need.

 

Needs to be below $ cayman s

 

It is, especially if you add an option or two to the Porsche.



Mark

 

has anyone bought alfa in usa for 50ish money yet?

 

Pretty sure the answer is no...the only cars out there are launch edition which sticker above $60k.

Also, fwiw, IMHO, I don't agree the Alfa needs to be less than cayman. I like p-cars, but I would happily pay more than cayman for a 4c. (And I say that without restarting the which is better debate. Car prices (and measurable performance) are only a part of the decision...otherwise the only sports car bought would be a corvette)


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That's not completely true, last month when I was at Maranello Motors in Woodbridge Ontario for the launch, they had a few regular non-launch editions there.


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yeah i get it. alfa has the better driving experience, more raw, etc. i drive a lotus elise so im in that boat also.
issue with alfa is the drivetrain is not very good so its a compromised car. cayman has great engine/transmission. stick shift too if you want it.
thats why i say 4c needs to be less $ than cayman.

 

Better built qulaity and sound too. The Alfa is ttypically Italian in that it still manages to enamore you despite all these flaws because it looks soo good.

 

Totally get it and I'm sure for anyone that is "feature for feature cross shopping" they may well choose the cayman or otherwise. My point was more that buying this Alfa is going to be a purely emotional purchase for many...I suspect enough souls will be stirred to account for the small volumes.


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I hope it does well enough to stay in production and get the drivetrain it deserves. open top version too

 

Echo'ing a few others in this thread, if stick, I'd wire over money by EOD.

 

sticks not even such a big deal to me. just want a first class engine

 

The 4c is not for everyone

A Ferrari is not for everyone

A Cadillac is not for everyone

A Prius is not for everyone

A Tesla is not for everyone.

It's great that Alfa made something truly different. Not everyone will like it but for those 2000 or so a year who want one will find it very rewarding.

 

Truer words were never spoken


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Exactly. This car will never sell in Cayman quantities anymore than 911GT3s would sell in 911 Carrera numbers (even at the same price). This is not a car for the mass market - it is too loud, too brash and not comfortably luxurious enough for the typical sports car driver that just wants to look good driving down the interstate.

I've been driving mine for four days now. I've owned a couple of Ferraris and have driven a few more. I've tracked my cars. I own a Porsche 997.2CS I only say this to point out that I'm not saying this from a lack of experience: The peanut gallery here that has not driven the car yet makes sweeping statements based on what negatives the press has written have no idea what they are talking about.

The press has actually been quite fond of the 4C, their complaints have been more about the day to day liveability of the car rather than any dynamic flaws.

But, I now understand the flaw in the modern automotive environment: between the internet journalists and Consumer Reports, cars like the Shelby Cobra, the Porsche 550 Spyder, maybe even the Ferrari 250GTO would have been crucified as being undriveable and impossible to live with and would not have sold because prospective customers would not have bothered to drive them.

The 4C has a small engine. It doesn't sound like a Ferrari V8, but it SOUNDS. A six cylinder would do nothing for it but take some of its character away. It does not need any more power for street driving. Only for a competition version. And even then, I am sure they can squeeze more power from the current engine - they shouldn't need a V6 and the packaging problems that would entail.

The body roll on my Porsche 997 feels like a Caddy when compared to a 4C, but I'm sure the electronics make it a "better handling" car on a road course.

The acceleration on the 4C is as fast as I need to go unless I'm racing for money.

The transmission could be smoother, but it can't be better. It begs you to drive it in Manual, whereas a Porsche PDK begs you to put it in auto while you Bluetooth some restaurant reservations.

All the while, there are no squeaks or rattles from the super solid chassis, there is cold a/c and, well, a crappy stereo that you would not be able to hear over the engine noise anyway.

The Elise comparison? I drove with an Elise this afternoon. The 4C sounds better. The interior is better in the 4C, and there are zero squeaks, rattles in the 4C. I don't know which would win a track battle, but since we can't get new Elises in the US anymore, the question is moot (although those same journalists say the Elise is slower).

It compares to a 430 Scud in that it is an event every time you drive it - it is not just transportation.

The 4C may not be the fastest on paper, or the most comfortable daily driver...but it is the most FUN. Other cars seem bland by comparison and there is nothing on the US market like it now that the Elise is gone.

You should not cross shop a Cayman with this - they are apples and oranges: 4C is to Cayman as 360ChallengeStradale is to 997CarreraS: Similar performance, but entirely different driving experiences.

Go read some of the owner's reviews on the 4C forum: An owner's perspective usually trumps a reviewer's opinion since they only spend a very short time driving the cars as opposed to owners who live with them every day.

I think there may be a few of you from FChat already there as the posting styles seem similar.

 

Good post and glad you are enjoying your alfa.
Can you describe the buying experience please? In nyc, neighboring fiat and maserati dealers are still fighting over rights to sell it. Dont know of any available in my area

 

Sailquik - thanks for your post and your insightful thoughts and experience. Fwiw, you said extremely well that which I have been expecting about this car. What you describe is why I cherish my stradale and couldn't care less (actually prefer) that it isn't more powerful (having fun at jail and injury avoiding speeds is a priority for my sports car driving).

And it's why I am interested in a 4c at some point.

 

My local Ferrari/Maserati dealer sells 'em. They don't have a sign on the door (yet) but I asked about it (months ago) and they got me one. No premium over MSRP. The Launch Edition is pricier than the Standard Edition, but it has all the good stuff that you should get anyway (leather dash, CF trim and spoiler, sport exhaust, etc.).

I think some dealers have been set up already in NY. Check out the Alfa USA page.