Official Countach Value Thread

Fastest car of 2014-for price increases, the Countach.

Found this article very fitting and the timing was perfect.

The Lamborghini Countach (pronounced Koontosh) was the top car in 2014 for price gains, according to Hagerty, the insurer of collectible cars. Prices for Countachs jumped by 175 percent in 2014, meaning they nearly tripled in one year.

Cars that used to sell for $200,000 or $300,000 are now selling for more than $750,000. A 1979 Countach LP 400S is being auctioned off by RM Auctions in Scottsdale, Arizona, next month, and it could top $1 million.

https://autos.yahoo.com/news/fastest-car-2014-price-increases-185900002.html

 

these value threads are fascinating. its interesting to hear non market people talk about markets. Couple points I wld make. bubbles are idiosyncratic - tulips, nasdaq late 1990s, housing. Cars are not in a bubble, or if they are, then everything else including cash and treasuries are also bubbles. People were referring to stocks as a bubble even though going into October 50 percent of all global stocks were in bear market territory. No doubt that hard (cars, houses) and soft (stocks) have been beneficiaries of a global zero interest rate environment, which in my opinion will last for generations, not years. Like stocks, certain cars will be beta plays and others will be alpha plays. Limited edition and older cars have appreciated. 458s and Bentley gts have not. I don't see wealthy people selling cars to buy bonds any time soon. I also think the car market cld very well take a breather and certain parts of the market will be more vulnerable than others. the buyer of the countach and f40 today is a much different, a much stronger buyer than when the cars were at 2009 prices. That bodes well for a specific few cars - the poster cars - I think have a lot of alpha and a lot of downside protection. So we cld see cars come down 15 to 20 percent and the special f40s and the special CTs cld very well be flat to slightly higher. who knows...we've had other equity bull markets and CTs and f40s never responded as they have this time. But the timing certainly feels overdue and Im of the opinion this is the new norm for the special clean cars. that and 25 cents IF you can find a pay phone.

 

Do you believe they have peaked and are destined for a "correction" from here or what do you think the values will do in 1 or 2 years? I for one believe this is the new bottom or close to it.

 

I think that some people buy cars for the sport of it. They don't like driving them. They don't like maintaining them. They just like looking at them and bragging that they own them. They watch the market and are trying to figure out the jumping off point. Others of us bought them to drive them. It makes up for two separate markets with completely different market drivers.

Personally, I have all the cars that I've ever really wanted but if F40s drop significantly, I will add a second one. I might buy another Countach as well. But if prices go up, I'm not selling my F40 or driving it any less. I certainly couldn't take care of it any better than I already do. The value certainly doesn't make the love the car any more or any less. When I die, the car's value will have little bearing on my happiness but the fond memories from all the wonderful miles and drives will.

 

Perfect

 

Nicely written! But the problem, and the creating force of 'bubbles' is the first group you wrote of. When that first group outnumbers the second group, the market bubble is created, only to go 'pop' some day!

 

So well spoken...for me as well..

I have cars that I sell and make money on (most of the time) and I have cars that will not see the title transfer names till days after I am dead and gone...then my kids can go buy what they like and enjoy with the proceeds of the sale..

 

Hi Roy,
Merry Christmas! I read the blue LP400S S1 selling at RM is yours!? That is a beautiful car and I'll see you in Scottsdale. If the bubble holds on you should make a mint on it, imo

 

True, and maybe that's happening now. I don't read the Lamborghini section as much but in the Supercar section, there is no shortage of F40 owners bragging about how low the miles are on their cars and what they paid for it when they bought at the low and they pepper Joe non-stop with questions about what the car is worth. I'll be the first to say to each their own and they are well within their rights to let the cars sit.

As for me, you will find no better set up, better maintained, better fit, better finished, better prepared F40 than my own. I restored it with special help from the powers that be in Maranello and some very special F40 experts from across the globe. I'll put it up against any F40 in the world in any comparison of quality and I know that it will come out on top. That said, it has good miles on it and it will get more - maybe 1k to 2k a year. For these collectors, my 26k mile F40 is probably not what they deem to be a "great" car. Never mind that they couldn't tell a properly set up and maintained car from one that's completely rotten inside. They don't see all the failures in the polyester resin on the cars they own and they don't know how the car should be maintained. All they know how to do is read the odometer. Yes, those guys absolutely shape the market and seem to be the loudest segment of the market. It doesn't make a difference to me but when they bail on cars and the prices drop precipitously, if they fall to an extreme bottom (60%) of today's values, I'll buy another F40 and dial that one in and drive it a bunch, too.

Similarly, I just turned down what has to be a massive world record price for my pristine 348 TB Challenge. I told the guy that I have lots of ways to make that kind of money but I have no other way to get a car like that: it's a very special car made in a very limited number and it's the best car of the entire run. Money is replaceable, that car is not. Sound familiar?

And that's the point: if this happens with Countach's, I'll buy another one too and I'm sure that I'm not alone. A lot of guys who are on the sidelines now who are on the driver side of the market that will come off the sidelines and buy one and keep it regardless of price because great cars are not easily replaced, regardless of how much money you have.

Anyway, don't forget that the market is divided and there are separate market drivers. One segment is a permanent part of the collector car market and one is completely fair-weather. They are here today but will they be in a few years? I don't know. It all plays a role.

 

The answer is, no, they will have moved on to some other sport, perhaps something less smelly, with no maintenance involved.

 

History repeats itself, and markets go up, then correct, and go down. Change is certain, nothing stays the same.

As regards if values have peaked, and when a correction will come, the correct answer is that nobody knows the future. In the same way, we don't know if this is the bottom, or the high.

 

Oh really? No kidding. I was asking your opinion on if they have peaked or where you feel the next year or so will take them, just your opinion that's all...

 

I thought it was common knowledge from my postings that my opinion was not as optimistic as that of most Countach owners!

For example, when you say you think this is the new bottom, I disagree, I think its the top. Specific numbers? Impossible to say, but I do think there is a cooling-off coming sooner rather than later, and in some cases we can see it manifesting itself already.

 

your post is so true. The dilemna for owners is how to keep a car looking always its best while driving it. It is a hard thing to do. But if you dont drive the car you cannot pretend you know it. I sometimes wonder if some owners do care about knowing the car.
I know of a place where there are about 1/2 dozen GT40 with no mileage on them. They dont seem even driven for maintenance. They have sit since their purchase date. It may make someone money but to me this is such a waste and a true enthousiast would have to go thru the entire car to get it road ready.

 

All true. I have found that I just have to spend a lot of money on detailing. Dings and dents are unacceptable but a little evidence of road use is okay. Frequent detailing is as close as I can come to having my cake and eating it too. After having to completely go through a car (as you correctly surmised) I bought that had only received 2k miles in 13 years, I have seen first hand the damage that sitting causes over the wear that driving does. NOT driving is very damaging. At least the vast majority of driving wear can be mitigated.

 

Growing up I had a neighbor that bought a new IROC Z. Never drove it. Wiped it down with a diaper. I wonder how that one turned out for him? I think everyone knows the answer. He should have bought something vintage. lol.

 

I personally just don't get to read every post in every thread and although I try, sometimes I am pages behind. Not common enough knowledge I guess as it was a fair question. Thanks.

 

Fair question, glad I could share my position.

Meanwhile Seasons Greetings to all!
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

For Sale LP 400...never driven in rain or snow.........

 

Is it a period picture of 1120096? In any case, it is really wonderful!

 

Consider this:

A CT was a +/- $160,000 car when sold new in the '80s (not sure if that included Federalization and import fees), which in 2014 dollars is +/- $360,000. The number of good cars remaining as a result of deferred maintenance, export, etc has reduced the supply of top examples. The cost to restore a CT to a top level is $150-200k. The fact is there has yet to be any true appreciation of its value since new for most variants. Do we believe the number of people who want and can afford (and is willing to pay for) a CT is more or less than what it was in the '80s? I agree the precipitous rise of pricing leaves for an unsettled market at the moment, but do we truly believe it is unjustified? I think we again need to look at other cars in its comp class and ask which is more of a significant car in history, which excites the senses more, and which would we rather enjoy for as long as we can if given the option of a Countach or other. I think the example of $800K for an '83 512 BBI posted yesterday and a $400K Testarossa is what aggravates us all about the market; unjustified asks at 2-3 times multiples of today's current values, but the median SALE comps today for top Countachs is not a unjustified; I can't say that for the value of all cars in today's market.

 

BRAVO! Well said.... Probably the best post I've read here in a very long time.

I feel the same exact way about my cars. It's the memories I have from my teens & now watching my son have the same enthusiastic reactions as I did as a teen. I much rather have the cars than the $ any day. I can always make more $ tomorrow. Oh wait tomorrow is Sunday, I'm going fishing. =)

 

I'm not sure of the chassis number, but I agree, great image!

 

Well said.