Who will win first- Seb or Kimi?

Kimi did a great job in 2012/13 so it wouldn't be out of the ordinary if he was able to come close to Alonso. IIRC the general concensus was that many thought Kimi would be very close to Alonso and some hoped he would beat Alonso and that Alonso would leave.

1 of those things happened, at least, but for the wrong reason.

But, very good post Toil. Absolutely no trolling here for comments whatsoever. Do you feed on this **** or something?

 

No current driver has had unlimited testing like MS had back then so you cannot say that Alonso, Kimi or anyone for that matter is not at the level that Michael was. The simulators might be as close as you can get to the real thing but it still ain't the same.

 

+1

Alonso actually was Renault's test driver and helped develop that car into a championship winner.

 

That is why I guess there is no such thing as a 'best driver of all time' really. There is only best/exceptional drivers of their time.

 

I did not think Kimi would have a good 2014, its very tough to have a good year as Alonso's "teammate"...

2015, is an improvement in the driver lineup. Ferrari has gone down a difficult road in car design and setup, and with Alonso, and limited testing, it wasn't a great idea. If Kimi and Seb can work together, Ferrari should be able to score some strategic victories. Seb is great at wringing the most out of a car, and Kimi is great at managing tires.

If the Ferrari is competitive, Seb will get a win first, if a win will only come by a strong tire strategy play, Kimi will.

I voted Sebastian.

Ferrari has had all their eggs in Alonso's basket for years, I'm hoping next year will have both Ferrari's doing better, rather than sacrificial plays.

 

I suppose you can argue that certain drivers can drive anything fast, (Senna, Alonso, Villeneuve, etc). Then there are drivers that are exceptional when the car is great, (Button, Vettel). Then there are drivers that are excellent development drivers that take a bad car and make it good (Prost, Lauda). There are a few drivers that fall into all categories and those are the true greats.

It makes me wonder about Kimi. His comments on his requirements from the car and his refusal or inability to adapt to the car instead explains why he got wiped by Alonso. It also explains why he's only won one WDC and a lucky one at that.

 

Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good...fingers crossed that some luck comes Ferraris way this year.

What changes, if any, are the constructors allowed to make to their power units this off season? If no changes are allowed then it certainly will be another runaway year for MB(and MB powered cars).

 

Alonso, each team he goes to, starts good, and gets worse. Coincidence? He's got good management and marketing hype for sure. He's also incredible at near touching wheel to wheel racing in a mind boggling way in a F1. He just seems to be toxic when it comes to anywhere he's gone. With limited testing, having driver's collaborate their inputs is absolutely critical.

NASCAR runs limited testing as well, and test data/development is critical for a team to get the most out of what they have. Look at what happened when Kurt Busch moved to what had been a "backmarker" #78 team.

I do not agree with posters who saying driver input/development is useless without testing, its even more critical now to be able to learn from one track, and apply it to another track on the calender.

 

That's funny because Renault was crap before he got there. He helped make them a winner. When he left they slid because he was the main reason why they won. McLaren hadn't won a race in 06. The next year when Alonso got there, they should have won the title. The next year they did win so you're wrong there too. Ferrari won one race in 09 before Alonso and finished second to the dominant Red Bulls three times in five years with a car that was second best. I'd say you have your facts wrong.

 

Presactly

 

Why lucky...because he drove better than the rest?

 

Renault's car improved drastically when Fisichella joined the team, not Alonso. Alonso left on a high at Renault, yes.

Look after he threw his toys out of the pram at Mclaren and re-joined Renault in 2008. He did help make them a winner then to?(Well...yes, he did "win" a race by choosing a bizarre strategy that because of a "lucky" safety car period at the right time got him a win.)

Alonso joined Ferrari when they had a car to contend for the championship. Maybe if Ferrari had kept Kimi, Ferrari still would have in the next few years. Pure speculation here though.

I am looking forwards to next year, always fun to see how cars/drivers will fair. ^^

 

Really? How many WDCs did Fisi win? Renault wasn't in good shape when he went back but he won two races in 08, the one in Japan on merit. Hekki or Fisi didn't come close the year before.

The F60 was total garbage in 09. Ferrari would have been in far worse shape had they not made the move. Hate Alonso all you like but there is little doubt that he was dragging the Ferrari along all these years. The only problem he ever had with a team was with McLaren and that fence seems to be mended.

 

We get it guys, you passionately hate Alonso, as a F1 driver. Move on children ... surely you have something else to play with?
Pete

 

There's no talking to some people.

 

I just can´t understand why there´s so much talk about drivers when they don´t really matter. I suppose that Bernie´s marketing works and people still hasn´t realized that this is about cars and money.

Well, back to topic: obviously Vettel is going to win first because Ferrari is not going to win soon and Raikkonen won´t stay for long.

 

If you can think of anything else to do in the off season, I'm all ears.

 

We could try talking to our families ...
Pete

 

I do that all year long...😳

 

We have to chew the fat on somat...how about fat Flavio in bed with Porno Max, that helped Renault bag some wins, yeh he even let Fred keep his win, that's until NPJ ratted on him...

 

Lucky because if McLaren had managed to keep their drivers under control, they would have won the WDC. With spygate that year it would have been horrible in retrospect but yes Kimi was lucky

 

Back to the original question: I think they are both done winning races.

 

As long as Ferrari are not able to field a competitive car gaining 1.5 - 2.0sec next year, it might be at least one - two more years before a win. Unless they get lucky like Red Bull did last season, to be close to the front, when BOTH Mercedes are unable to remain in the lead. This assumes another Mercedes powered team like Williams is weaker which I dont think they will be.

Vettel should be around longer than Kimi due to age but anything is possible. I could see Vettel leaving before him if Ferrari appear to remain weak. He made his mark with 4 titles. Kimi needs the job more than Vettel does.

 

I don't know why you are putting those names as if they are only in those categories. In 2011 Button did not have a great car but he drove it exceptional anyway and his teammate Hamilton, did not. But in 2012 when they had a great car Hamilton drove it exceptional and Button did not. So the names pass in all the categories. More examples Prost did not make the bad Ferrari look good and in 1989 he was not developing a car but driving it fast and Alonso was not driving the 2009 Renault fast and Vettel was driving the bad Minardi car fast in 2008, so you see the drivers cross all the categories. I don't know what you are saying about Kimi because he was very fast in 2003 and 2005 and that is why we made him our driver in 2007 and he made Ferrari champion because he was fast. So maybe now he is slower but he was not lucky he was very fast. You can't put the drivers in the boxes like that unless you make sure to talk about only a few seasons and then hope nobody remembers all the other seasons where they do not fit in the boxes.

I don't know who will win first, but I know that Ferrari will make a winning car again and if they are still driving for us then they will win in it. Kimi has already proved he can win for us and Vettel obviously knows how to win.

 

Btw after reading shout Seb's love of the red cars I don't think he cares whether he wins or not, he is under the spell of Ferrari and loving life.
Winning would be a bonus.
Pete