Here's a pic of me pulling the engine out of my 612 yesterday!

A real basic test ... have you tried while she is running squirting fuel into the not running side's inlet manifold?

Would surely be obvious if that side tried to run for a little while. This may help identify which circuit you need to concentrate on, ie. if nothing happened then it's spark and timing of spark, if something happened it's fuel supply.
Pete

 

Didn't you get both banks running after rebuild #1 but stopped the car after you heard noise that was the bent valve? If so the car is running worse that that now? Or the car never ran after rebuild#1? Does the car run on 1 bank now or will not start? I'm confused on what is the current status.

 

If you have fuel, air, spark, compression on the cylinders it should fire... Are all cylinders on that bank cold? Or, are some firing?

 

I think we all admire you for attempting to fix a very complicated exotic car. But I think the problem is what you said in post #4. Just because in the past you owned Italian designed cars will not help you in this endeavor. My guess is that you will end up taking it to the dealer and they will fix it. I truly hope that it will not cost you more in the end because you took on this project but I suspect it will. Good luck.

 

Oh brother....Your experience of working on other Italian cars is a MASSIVE benefit in trying to fix this one.

There are those of us who believe in your ability to get to the bottom of this problem and build yourself a great Ferrari.

And..there are those that believe, despite the glaring evidence you have demonstrated, that only the "factory-trained" teenagers at dealerships can repair modern Ferraris because they "know computers". This last problem is something simple, I can feel it - elusive, maybe, but nevertheless simple - the complicated parts are all behind you.

Ignore the naysayers who just repeat "my mechanic says..." and persevere - you're so close now.

-Richard

 

I finally sat down to read the entire thread. Great work! You're nearing the finish line, hang in there!

 

At this point, I would want to confirm the fuel pressure on the right rail.

Also, are the rear O2 sensors included in your startup process?

 

This is a great thread, I've been learning a lot. I consider myself technical, and a gear head, but you are working several levels above my expertise on this.

However as an experienced "driver" who has had the occasional gremlins that put the engine into limp mode, or toss strange errors, or have one bank shut down....our tech and race team would be spending hours doing hit-and-miss diagnosing without an SD3 (or, DEIS for the newer cars).

If there is a dealer or independent nearby, I wonder if the SD3 would be able to point you in the right direction? Or at least give you a sense of what sensors or fault codes might be hiding in there.

I once had zero fire on one back, the error code was a TCS problem that we finally tied back to the MAF. Strange how these cars (systems) think.

Good luck and stay at it, you're close!

 

just to clarify my earlier comment - I don't think a dealer or independent with an SD3 would charge you (much) to download, log codes, capture the readings and clear codes. SD3's are portable so maybe you can find someone to come to you....perhaps an hour of labor or less?

I was not suggesting turning the car over to them

I am not that familiar with the SD3 or the 612 platform compared to the DEIS and 458/F12/FF/458C's, but I would imagine (and an expert can correct me) that it might point to a bad sensor or conflicts.

Keep us posted!

 

If it has fuel and spark, even at the wrong times you should get the ocassional fire on the problem side ...

Are the plugs getting wet? As surely if you have fuel and that side is not running the plugs would be soaked with fuel by now, so if they are NOT wet you are not getting fuel ... which is why I've suggested squirting some in by hand to see if anything happens.

Even Ferrari cannot make an engine so unnecessarily complicated that fuel and spark will not cause a combustion to occur.
Pete

 

Conventional wisdom is you need spark and fuel but we don't have carbs and point distributors anymore. Verifying spark and fuel are a first step where you still can have a no start condition as you know. If you look at your WSM there is probably a section on "operating principal". That section lists a hierarchy of sensors and conditions for running. It has not changed since the 2.5 motronic and probably same with yours. You need stuff like a strong enough battery to ensure minimum RPM like 30. You need spark and fuel but the primary coordination of those things are crank position sensor. This car was under water. I would do more than just check the sensors at the connection. I would go back a bit to check integrity. Your WSM might also say next key is air flow reading from the MAF but that the car will default to TPS mapping alfa-N. If so the MAF does not need to be there to start. Then the car might look for lesser inputs like temp sensor which helps to regulate the initial open loop fuel load for the air available like a choke in the old days but in reverse. Then other stuff comes in as the car goes to closed loop 02 sensors etc. but those things don't stop a car from starting. That's a typical motronic scheme. Check your WSM and see what it says. Also, the slowdown ECU's don't stop a car unless they register 5v to the motronics or have another internal fault. When they fail they usually throw mil not limp the motor but sometimes it will limp a motor to protect it. But then the car will start when cold unless there is a SDECU fault. look at the WSN and see how your system operates. There is a range the ECU wants to see to keep the motronic's happy. In everything 2003 and backward I have found 1.5V to the SDECU trigger keeps the motronics happy so a simple 1.5V battery can ease your mind and eliminate that system of any effect. You don't have to cam time again with degree wheel. If #1 is at TDC and the 4 assemby marks are very close to lining up the car has the potential to start and that will not stop the car from running. Proper cam timing just maximizes Ferrari's compromises for HP/torque/smog

 

Is it running way rich but well and just burning your eyes or way rich and sounding like it is off timed as you proposed and funky idle? These cars purr with smooth idle like you could put a glass of wine on the motor and the wine would just ripple.

 

Ok at the risk of going beyond my limits here, when I had a 430C we would often have the exhaust thermocouples go bad....which would result in limp mode or single bank. You mentioned it....so just connecting dots. The routine was loss of power/limp/single bank....pits....SD3....swap a new thermocouple in....clear code...all good. I might be remembering wrong but at this point I want to see your car running. A guru on these engines should know

 

Have you considered calling Brian Crall?

 

There's a Ferrari mechanic named Rob Panico who did a fantastic job on my 612 major along with a good bit of other work. He was the best Ferrari of Washington had. He left and I believe turned up at The Collection in FL. Might give him a ring. Might be better suggestions out there, dunno, but I think the world of Rob. Really nice guy.

 

I think that was a wise thing to do. Without that SD3 there are so many things you can't diagnose.

 

Meant to add to my first post: I stumbled into the 612 section as I continually entertain the thought of having a four seat Ferrari I can enjoy with my family. What an awesome project! Obviously you've hit a frustrating point now but the work you've done really looks great and you're going to end up with a great 612 once you've got this sorted. Great job and good luck!