F12 prices

The market for 12 cylinder Ferrari's is pretty small (consider the size of the allocations in each market), and the market for higher mileage examples is even smaller. A thinly traded market like this doesn't need much of a supply mismatch to break pretty hard. The market history reflects it. The f12 is holding well, but at some point it will soften, though apparently not yet.

Also, FWIW, if you look at the math Ferrari does for its own lease programs, if the car is driven any decent amount, its residual gets hit--but essentially in line other cars. Seems reasonable, to be honest.

 

I think it depends on the dealer. We have 4 cars at our local all at MSRP including a new car that has never been titled. I'm certain I could walk out with one under MSRP if I opened my checkbook as they have been sitting a while.

 

RCorsa, where are you located?

 

Shop around, and run if they try to pull that "we want to sell locally".

 

In Uk the Aventador has suffered minimal depreciation still, but there are only about 100 of them, compared to double that for F12. Supply and demand all the way. Interesting that Huracan for example seems freely available here, which suggests demand sluggish. I guess F12 numbers in USA could go higher, but Ferrari still need to preserve exclusivity or market penetration, though they seem not to worry much about that in UK. They flooded it in 2008 with F430's , much the same with 458 , and aggressive pushing of F12 with big new car discounts. (at least for dealer held stock).

 

In the US are you guys able to write your 458, FF and F12s off as 100% business expenses or does the IRS get funny about it. My understating is that it's not too easy?

Here in Germany we can write our cars off as 100% business expenses if we do the paperwork correctly. On one of the new V12s through an outright purchase you can write off 60,000€ a year (20%)plus insurance and fuel (considering a 300,000€ new price).

Sell the car in a year for 240,000€ and you avoided paying in taxes 30,000€ and enjoyed an ff or f12 for the year.

In this example you would have paid 30,000€ in taxes and kept the other 30,000€ in the bank had you not bought the car.

Buying the car you gave the 30,000€ to Ferrari instead of the tax office and paid 15,000 In taxes on the remaining 30,000. This has you keeping 15,000€ in the bank from your original 60,000€. So essentially the car is costing us only 15,000€ per year even though it depreciated 60,000€. That's really cheap ownership and I don't think that's possible in the U.S. If cars depreciated in the US like they did here and you could not write them off I think a lot of the customers would not purchase them. I feel the customer base would shrink at a $80-100,000 loss in one year.


Another interesting point is that here, through a lease with a 50,000€ down payment and a monthly payments of 3000€ you could write off 86,000€ in the first year plus fuel and insurances.

This leads a lot of business owners and businesses to purchase these cars run them and enjoy them for a year or two reap the tax benefit and get a new one or another one next year. This gives incentive for people here to buy these cars and move onto the next one without too much concern for depreciation.

 

Hi I might drop you a pm on this point. I heard about that FF lease deal of 50k down and 2400 a month for 36 months. No mileage limit which sounded like a great deal. I'm new in Germany and keen to understand the tax aspects of car buying.

 

I remember you were ordering a white Speciale. I wasn't sure it had arrived yet. Congratulations on a superb sports car!

As far as your prediction, its not the same situation for the F12 already. I bought an 18 month old car for over MSRP and it was a bit of a fight to get it. Of course, having the right colors and options and the car itself being such a superior vehicle really compared to anything in its class, ever, makes a big difference. Mine is still valued over sticker from a third party appraisal that was required recently. Their research set the value above MSRP based on the market, condition and specs. Just got the paperwork settled.

Another difference is the F12 platform was recently used for several low quantity special editions that sold for $2.5M - $4M. Of course the very limited quantity is what drove the pricing but the after effect certainly pushes back to the F12. Lots of Ferrari owners didn't understand the pricing as you could have bought three LaF's for what was called just a restyled F12 which , in my opinion, didn't look as superb as the F12 itself.

 

I recently purchased a new 2015 F12 and certainly wish that I could assume for it to hold its value for some time, but I know this will not be the case. Similar to the 599's, the value will begin to drop (hopefully with slightly less vigor) and then plateau out at a certain number. The main determining factor will be ability to walk into a dealership and order your own car. If demand has tapered off to the point that any individual can walk in and do this, it essentially eliminates a big part of the pre-owned market. Why would you pay list for a car that someone else ordered and is likely less "perfect" than a new one made to one's own specs?

I look at these cars as pure luxuries and indulgences….so the depreciation is very expected for me.

 

Most important thing is that the F12 brings you joy of ownership
Please excuse my silly predictions though

 

Not silly - but perhaps a bit pessimistic in the current market.

 

Yeah

 

There is NO way a 2013 F12 is worth MSRP to sell privately or to trade in sorry, prices on these cars have started to slide and when the V12's slide they slide big time. I just traded my 2014 F12 1300 miles in on a CaliT for 10k behind MSRP by the summer that trade would be 30-40k behind MRSP.

 

Picking up my new F12 today in London. Although i know the dealer pretty well after having bought and sold a 458 w them, they just would not do anything more than 7-8pct of the MSRP..to an extent even when i initially walked off, they did not bulge..mind you, this is central london, so will be different in demand dynamics vs the rest of the UK for sure

 

HR O?

If you were inclined to head a bit North of the m25, the relevant dealers are up for more price discussion. Presumably they don't have the easy pickings of central London's wealth to fall into their lap.

Of course their back end bonus is hugely incentivising to hit, so all of a sudden extras are either FoC or at their cost to the dealer.

Interesting micro and macro evonomics of a dealer in the same country but 150 miles North has vastly different economics to the Southern dealer, but when compared to the US, it would seem to ask why would any UK F dealer even open their doors in the morning!

 

In the US, cars with over 1k miles on them can be had for less than MSRP. I just picked one up for approx $15k discount (car had 3k miles) and am loving it! I plan to drive it close to daily so i'm sure I will take a big hit down the road but the smiles in between will be so worth it

 

Good for you - Enjoy

 

I am amazed at how little people drive these cars. I'll put 3000km a month on my FF while I read that the average U.S. FF usage has been 3000 miles a year. Seems a lot of these guys keep the miles low for the next guy.

How old was your car with 3000 miles on it?

 

It a culture thing, US about money money money. People watch the ODO like hawks because of depreciation psyche.

 

U are a fund manager in central london buying a NEW F12. Did u really expect a discount ?

We can buy used only cause the moneyfolks buy new, someone HAS to take the depreciation Pay attention to the ODOs of 1-owner-only used Fcars. The higher the number the more money the guy had.

 

The sad truth is Europeans drive their cars while Americans prefer to look at them sitting in a garage or at Cars & Coffee (majority at least)

 

Used F12s will depreciate an equivalent amount per year and mileage similar to the 599 GTB.
Once Ferrari has churned out 3000+ of them and the market is flooded, a 15k mile F12 will be worth half its MSRP.

 

Its a 2014, I believe October delivery so about 15 months old. I've already put 400 miles on it in the first week! What a fantastic car, great sounds, easy in traffic but what a joy on the back roads with no traffic! Can't wait for a track day opportunity

 

Sure. So when the dealer makes $10K-$15K on HIS sale of the same car your still looking at around MSRP outside of the trade. If its got special options then its more. Unless, of course, you think he did the trade to break even or lose money.

 

2014 Ferrari F12 Berlinetta - Factory Autorized New and Used Ferrari, Maserati, Aston Martin, Lotus and McLaren Dealer

Is this really what lightly used ones are going for?