Check engine light | FerrariChat

Check engine light

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by dersark_painclinic, Jan 15, 2015.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. dersark_painclinic

    dersark_painclinic Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2005
    981
    Glendale, CA
    Full Name:
    Lazik Der Sarkissian
    Hello all, today my check engine light came on. The red right upper corner light is on and stays on and the one in the middle blinking. The gas tank cap is tight. Forum search found somebody with manifold gasket leak which resolved by replacing. Internet check says air pump or the valve frozen, but I am in Los Angeles. Any advise, comments what to look for appreciated. Otherwise I believe this might need more sofisticated technicians knowledge.
    Thanks again, Sark
     
  2. 308 GTB

    308 GTB F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 7, 2002
    11,692
    New Jersey
    Full Name:
    Barry Wolinsky
    Sark,

    Did you already try rebooting your car?

    Barry
     
  3. dersark_painclinic

    dersark_painclinic Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2005
    981
    Glendale, CA
    Full Name:
    Lazik Der Sarkissian
    I forgot to mention I connected my OBD II and read code P0410 secondary air injection system.
    Sark
     
  4. dersark_painclinic

    dersark_painclinic Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2005
    981
    Glendale, CA
    Full Name:
    Lazik Der Sarkissian
    Barry, I did that couple weeks ago when I had slow down light and that went away.
    Sark
     
  5. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
    12,650
    South East
    Full Name:
    Jimmie
    Its likely someone may have had this before - did you look to see if any other threads mention this code ?
     
  6. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3
    BANNED

    Sark, are you hearing the secondary air pump running for the first 10 seconds or so after a cold start? It's hard to miss; sounds sorta like a Hoover vacuum cleaner on steroids.

    I'm pretty sure it should only run from a stone cold start; its function is to inject fresh air into the exhaust stream to help the cats light off.
     
  7. dersark_painclinic

    dersark_painclinic Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2005
    981
    Glendale, CA
    Full Name:
    Lazik Der Sarkissian
    John, I have not look for that cold sound. I am going away this weekend when I come back I will look for that. Jimmie, yes there is and he had manifold vacume leak issue.
    Thanks, Sark.
     
  8. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3
    BANNED

    If it's not running on the first cold start, then you might check to see if the pump is fried.

    You can disconnect the electrical connector from the pump, figure out which of the pins in the pump are + and -, then just jumper 12 volts straight into the pump to see if it runs OK. If it doesn't run with +12 coming straight into it, that may be your problem.
     
  9. dersark_painclinic

    dersark_painclinic Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2005
    981
    Glendale, CA
    Full Name:
    Lazik Der Sarkissian
    Thanks john, I will try when I come back from meeting, I will let you know with the results.
    Sark
     
  10. dersark_painclinic

    dersark_painclinic Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2005
    981
    Glendale, CA
    Full Name:
    Lazik Der Sarkissian
    #10 dersark_painclinic, Jan 22, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Today I removed the secondary air pump, First the under tray should come off then right side air filter also needs to be removed and pump is under the air cleaner picture #1. Pump is attached to the chassis by thee screws hard to reach took and hour to remove. picture # 2 shows the brand of the pump. Picture #3 shows the electrical wiring of the pump RED and BLACK marked as A and B. I assume the RED is the positive for on bench testing but I wait to here from John or any pros.

    Thanks, SARK
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  11. moorfan

    moorfan Formula Junior

    May 11, 2009
    809
    Central Virginia
    Full Name:
    Pete
    Sark if you want to verify take the connector that goes to the pump and check it with a multimeter. If your black wire in the connector (the car side, not the pump side) is continuous with ground then you can apply 12 volts to the red wire on the pump and ground the black side to verify the operation of the pump. These pumps suck, and often die. I had to replace one on my 360.
     
  12. dersark_painclinic

    dersark_painclinic Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2005
    981
    Glendale, CA
    Full Name:
    Lazik Der Sarkissian
    Thanks Pete, I will find out tonight.
    Sark
     
  13. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3
    BANNED

    #13 Cribbj, Jan 22, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Sark, sorry for your trouble; I didn't mean for you to take the whole pump off the car. I just meant for you to disconnect the electrical connector, then make temporary jumpers to connect the pump to your battery to see if the pump works.

    From what I remember, yes red is positive and black is negative. Just connect the battery to those two terminals with temporary jumper leads and see if the pump works.

    Also, that filter may not be the best way to protect the inlet of the pump (mine had big gaps, as yours does) K&M make little crankcase breather filters that fit on the inlet side of these pumps very nicely. There are two sizes, 3/4" and 1", but I've forgotten which one I used - probably it was the 3/4"
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  14. dersark_painclinic

    dersark_painclinic Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2005
    981
    Glendale, CA
    Full Name:
    Lazik Der Sarkissian
    Pete I followed your advise and found continuation on black wire. John you confirm that red is the positive. I connected to the external battery and pump works great, big savings. The reason I removed the pump because I did not want take any chances And do the test on the bench with full confidence. John I saw your post and I ordered the K&N filter. Now what else should I look for? The valves?. For now I am going to put the pump back in. I know on other cars when check engine light comes on there is a oxygen sensor issue, but the OBD II read secondary air injection system.

    Thanks again, Sark
     
  15. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3
    BANNED

    #15 Cribbj, Jan 22, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Sark, it might be the check valves leaking, but first check fuse 23 and Relay U in the diagram below. Those are supposed to be for the air pump.

    Fuse 23 is also for the air horns, so an easy way to check if it's OK is to hit the horn button.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  16. dersark_painclinic

    dersark_painclinic Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2005
    981
    Glendale, CA
    Full Name:
    Lazik Der Sarkissian
    John horn is working so assume the fuse is okay, I do not know what relay does. I will check the relay in the morning. Leaky valve how do you check that one. I believe there are three of those one of them is cheap and other two are expensive.

    Thanks, Sark
     
  17. dersark_painclinic

    dersark_painclinic Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2005
    981
    Glendale, CA
    Full Name:
    Lazik Der Sarkissian
    John, I removed the U relay switch and tested, I connected the 85 and 86 terminals to the battery which clicked then tested between 87 and 30 terminals and they showed continuity. I assume the relay switch is okay. So now is the issue of valves involved. Do you have any majic advice to direct me towards diagnosis.

    Thanks, Sark
     
  18. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3
    BANNED

    Sark, first try to isolate the problem to either the controls or the valves, so just confirm that the pump runs when you first start the car with a cold engine. That'll tell you if the controls are working. You've heard the noise now with the pump on your bench, so you can't miss it when it runs; it sounds like a Hoover vacuum cleaner. Note, you'll probably only get one shot at this, as once the O2 sensors reach operating temperature, the ECU will not allow the pump to run.

    If the pump doesn't run for 10 to 30 seconds with a cold engine then there's problems in the control system or harness. Assuming your harness is good, the other problems could be:

    1. The O2 sensor heaters aren't working or are burnt out (possible)
    2. The coolant temperature sensor isn't working, connector loose, etc. (not likely)
    3. Internal fault in the Motronic ECU (not likely)

    One point on the O2 sensors, and you may already know this; you can't have both closed loop AFR control with the O2 sensors, and air injection into the exhaust; the two are incompatible. So the air pump is only allowed to operate prior to the O2 sensors coming up to temperature, ie the first cold start of the day.

    Many people are critical of the air injection system and would like to remove it, but as long as you have cats on your car, it's a very effective system that helps prolong the life of these outrageously expensive parts.

    If the pump runs OK, we'll go to the next step of checking the solenoid valve, then the vacuum operated valves and finally the check valves on the exhaust manifolds.
     
  19. dersark_painclinic

    dersark_painclinic Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2005
    981
    Glendale, CA
    Full Name:
    Lazik Der Sarkissian
    Thank you John, this is my weekend project,
    Sark.
     
  20. dersark_painclinic

    dersark_painclinic Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2005
    981
    Glendale, CA
    Full Name:
    Lazik Der Sarkissian
    #20 dersark_painclinic, Jan 25, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    John, pump starts with cold engine and runs for about 30 plus seconds then shutts off. Now I should go to the next step the selenoid # 13. I will get back with results.
    Sark
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  21. dersark_painclinic

    dersark_painclinic Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2005
    981
    Glendale, CA
    Full Name:
    Lazik Der Sarkissian
    #21 dersark_painclinic, Jan 25, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I took the selenoid out, it is made in USA item and avilable on web site. (PA 66 ) when selenoid activates open the manifold vacume to the two valves in the air pump and direct the air flow to the manifold. In order to check the selenoid on the bench I need to know which terminal is positive. I followed Pete recommendation to find which (car side) thermal with ground showes continuity, both terminals showes continuity one more than the other, Any help appreciated to check the selenoid.
    Sark
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  22. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3
    BANNED

    Sark, you could check which terminal in the harness gets +12 when you turn the key on for first start of the day. However, it's probably similar to an injector and isn't polarity sensitive anyway.
     
  23. dersark_painclinic

    dersark_painclinic Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2005
    981
    Glendale, CA
    Full Name:
    Lazik Der Sarkissian
    Thanks John that make sense, because I tried the other terminals and I had same results.
     
  24. dersark_painclinic

    dersark_painclinic Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2005
    981
    Glendale, CA
    Full Name:
    Lazik Der Sarkissian
    John, I checked the selenoid on the bench and it is working, by the way it has positive and negative terminals by turning the key on. I checked visually the rest of valves and vacume hoses with clamps and they appear to be okay. Do you have any other idea or advise for me what else to look for.
    Thanks Sark.
     
  25. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3
    BANNED

    #25 Cribbj, Jan 28, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2015
    Sark, next I would get one of those hand operated vacuum pumps, and pull a vacuum on the small line coming off the solenoid valve, going to the vacuum operated valves, and confirm they both work OK. These are the normally closed valves that open under vacuum and allow the output of the air pump to go to the check valves at the exhaust manifolds.

    The last things in that circuit are the check valves themselves, and they're there to protect the vacuum operated valves & air pump from exhaust gases backfeeding from the manifolds. If you see some crud in the vacuum operated valves or their lines, and/or they may be stuck, then these check(s) on the manifold(s) are probably passing.

    Back on the vacuum operated valves, I'm accustomed to seeing a vacuum storage reservoir in cars that use vacuum operated valves, and there may be issues with this leaking down, and not operating the vacuum operated valves. I don't know positively if our cars have one of these, but I'll probe around my engine bay and have a look.

    Lastly, I think that if the O2 sensors do not come up to operating temperature via their heaters, and signal the Motronic to turn the pump off, and the Motronic has to do it itself via a timer, that could also set that OBD2 code that you're getting. So you might have some duff O2 sensors. Brian or another pro could confirm if it works this way or not.

    Edit: We do have a vacuum reservoir; it's located just under the right side structural cross bracing in the engine bay, under the battery, but inboard. It looks somewhat like an A/C receiver/drier.
     

Share This Page