Matching #'s, Restored To Original Or "Enhanced" | FerrariChat

Matching #'s, Restored To Original Or "Enhanced"

Discussion in '206/246' started by 4CamGT, Jan 18, 2015.

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  1. 4CamGT

    4CamGT F1 Rookie

    Jun 23, 2004
    2,650
    Southern California
    #1 4CamGT, Jan 18, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2015
    All,

    I wanted to start this thread as a healthy discussion about our passion and fun with the Dino. Through my years of participating on this forum I have seen many opinions expressed about this topic. Some draw an absolute line in the sand where others are more open. Personally I love it all! My dream of a Dino didn't come from an investment. It is about the passion and fun of the car and the people.

    Example #1:
    My colleague has a '72 Dino GT like mine (same color) but has the original #'s motor built to Stratos Group 4 specs with Ferrari F2 heads and Stratos Carb setup. He's also taken the original flairs and had them subtly widened. He has been in vintage Ferraris since the 60's. He's also on the Pebble Beach Concours board and is probably the single most knowledgeable Ferrari expert that I know. He has no interest in what his car is worth. He just loves his Dino and continues to develop it to his taste and pleasure.

    Example #2:
    There are a couple of you that have taken U.S. Spec Dinos and have converted the aesthetics to Euro spec, done a color change etc etc. All beautiful, bold executions done with commitment and great taste!

    Example #3:
    A matching #'s Dino was restored to about as perfect as humanly possible but has had a color change and a few hidden non original mods. One of the most gorgeous Dinos on the planet!

    Example #4:
    A non-matching #'s Dino was restored to original but has had a color change. A gorgeous Dino!

    Example #5:
    Corbani (THE Dino enthusiast prototype)!

    There are numerous other examples! As I said, I love it all! My own personal criteria is good taste and good judgement and that it make ME happy. I see this as a hobby and is a lot of fun. I love that we have so many passionate, knowledgeable and opinionated "Dinophiles"!

    My personal Dino is a journey. I love every moment of it. Sourcing parts, documents, researching, meeting people, comparing notes etc etc. I have a few repro tools in my toolkit slowly being replaced by originals. I have rebuilt my entire ignition system back to original points but with a prototype Winterburn CD box (size and function of a better Dinoplex, we'll share more about that later). I've been getting it to be a great, reliable, fun Dino to drive. We've done a lot of experimenting with the DCNF's (more on that too). Sometime soon I'll be playing with the NOS Stratos carb assembly I have (fits under the deck lid with an airbox BTW). I eventually will install headlamp covers with the right curvature that I'm developing. I like the look with the stock wheels, I also love the Campys, the 16" Cromodoras and the über rare 16" Campys. I've seen examples with the 7.5X15 5-spoke 308 wheels. To my eye, looks great.

    Enjoying these cars purely as an investment is hollow. If you love them ONLY 100% as it left the factory there wouldn't be many of us on F-Chat.

    I'm as opinionated as any of you, trust me (ask the people who work with me). I try and look at the complete picture and ask myself, are we having fun? Are we learning? Please, let's use this thread to create a positive debate and discussion about our passion and fun with the Dino.

    Freeman

    P.S. I co-founded the Porsche 911 based "RGRUPPE" with my friend Cris Huergas because of the love of the 911 and to be with like-minded souls.
     
  2. maximilian.szwaj

    maximilian.szwaj Karting

    Nov 10, 2003
    63
    Italy
    Full Name:
    Maximilian Szwaj
    #2 maximilian.szwaj, Jan 18, 2015
    Excellent Freeman,
    Since the beginning I was a car enthusiast infected with a true passion for cars in general and like yourself and some others, I work in this industry which some people could think is over the top I.e. Cars 24/7!
    During my various ownerships of Porsches and later Ferraris I am also guilty of the impurities described in examples 2 and 3.
    I might be more reserved in pursuing your other examples but that's my choice and I have no problem with others who do this.
    Like you said (I think it was you) some months ago, there are no bad Dinos but there are bad descriptions.

    I am glad that FChat exists, I joined this community in 2003 because of the passion I had and still have for Ferrari.
    This is a great source of using a www to link owners and enthusiasts around the globe.
    I, like others filter the things which I like and are relevant to my research and rest I leave alone.
    If I can I will add my opinion based on my limited knowledge.
    This is an incredible opportunity to share knowledge and to have a database for everyone to use!
    For the purists and also not purists we have Matthias Bartz (also others) who has dedicated his time and true passion to research Dino cars from A to Z.

    This site is for everyone and this, in my opinion, should be respected by everyone. I also believe that if someone is looking for an opinion on the work he/she did, we should constructively contribute. We all know how difficult it is to work on these cars.

    Sorry for maybe stating the obvious above but there is place for everyone even if they have a different opinion. You can choose if you want to enter a particular debate or not.

    Best, Max
     
  3. tx246

    tx246 F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 4, 2003
    6,474
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Shawn
    #3 tx246, Jan 19, 2015
    Freeman,

    No Offense, but the Porsche crowd is an uptight bunch. The Dino guys tend to me more about passion, rather than perfection.

    I like it that way.

    What I love most is how we ache to learn more about the cars and OUR car. For a production car, it is amazing how different they all are.

    I would rather spend time with a Dino 308 GT4 guy that is passionate than a guy with a 2x6 that is a jerk......

    Shawn
     
  4. 4CamGT

    4CamGT F1 Rookie

    Jun 23, 2004
    2,650
    Southern California
    #4 4CamGT, Jan 19, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2015
    Shawn,

    I think you find some of the same people in every group. Depends where your passion and interest is. I found some of the most laid back personalities in the 356 Club and RGRUPPE. They love to drive, appreciate patinae and don't take things too serious. When it becomes "high school" I check out.

    Freeman
     
  5. Dino246gts

    Dino246gts Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 6, 2006
    433
    #5 Dino246gts, Jan 20, 2015
    Example #6:
    A matching numbers Dino, unrestord, with original paint in concours condition. Driven very little but that is how the owner likes it. To each his own.....right?
    And assuming you are the same Freeman that designed the TT then you know the guy from who I bought the Dino. The guy who lived around the corner from you with the red Miata. He probably never mentioned he had a Dino.....sold it to me 33 years ago. I had dinner with him tonight and he says "Hi" and wants you to know that the guy who bought your blue Carrera still has it. Small world.
     
  6. dgt

    dgt Formula 3
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jan 14, 2011
    1,283
    Northeast, USA & Oz
    Full Name:
    Andrew
    #6 dgt, Jan 20, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Great thread and some good examples of where cars end up based on what the owner started with and their choices along the way.
    Every Dino needs work and I love restoring cars, just taking something that has 'issues' and bringing it back is immensely satisfying. Doesn't matter if it's undoing some bad wiring or finding the correct fastener or stripping back to metal and repainting. It makes the car better - correct and functional.

    My approach is pretty simple, take it back to a similar condition when it was new using correct parts as much as possible with minimal changes and modifications to be more corrosion resistant, fixes for known reliability issues, and everything has to work properly. I also like to find all the original tools and books along with researching the history, another project by itself! Buying a car where you know and want the original configuration (and matching numbers) helps I think.

    Why do it this way? The Dino is a jewel of a car, so many small features that delight and the lines are perfect on every side. I don't feel a need to make changes to it.

    The Dinos I bought are on the challenging side for restoration but seeing a neglected car attracts me more I think as I can see the possibilities for it. Anyway, who else is going to save this pile of junk? :)
    Andrew
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  7. mar3kl

    mar3kl Formula Junior

    Nov 17, 2011
    453
    Silicon Valley
    Full Name:
    Mark
    #7 mar3kl, Jan 20, 2015
    I like a completely correct concours-level car, but I want to drive it too. These cars have too much soul to leave them in the garage. I'll just clean mine up before I show it. These cars are pieces of history, and I think it's a kind of service to the enthusiast community to have the car look as close as possible to when it left the factory, so people down the road know exactly what these cars looked like back in the day.
     
  8. 4CamGT

    4CamGT F1 Rookie

    Jun 23, 2004
    2,650
    Southern California
    #8 4CamGT, Jan 20, 2015
    Small world! My neighbor across the street got an amazing gift from me with my '74 Carrera! 17,000 0riginal miles, original paint (Mexico Blue). Every once in a while you come across a great car and that was one! I never knew the guy around the corner had a Dino! Hopefully you're enjoying the Dino! GT or GTS? I almost bought an all original 7,000 mile Dino. I had first right of refusal on it. In the end I decided not to and instead bought the one I have. All of my cars are driver condition (except my '72 911 which is original paint etc) but not perfect. I get too nervous and can't relax when I have a perfect original paint car. I feel the car owns me and not the other way around. It happens every time. In my cars that have bumps and bruises I tend to have more fun and have the attitude it can be fixed. I love driving them and not worrying about parking. In an original paint perfect car, it is original only once. I love them, I appreciate them, I even dream of owning one but in reality I don't seem to relax and drive them. In this respect, my Dino is perfect! I LOVE patinae!

    Please say hi to my ex neighbor(s) next time you see him!

    Freeman
     
  9. Dino246gts

    Dino246gts Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 6, 2006
    433
    #9 Dino246gts, Jan 21, 2015
    Hi Freeman,

    Yes, I will say Hi to your ex-neighbor. I know he will appreciate "hearing" from you.
    The reason you didn't know he had a Dino was because I bought it from him over 33 years ago, long before you knew him, and he probably thought you were only a Porsche guy, so it never came up. It's a GTS.
    And I know what you mean about original paint. It is quite nerve wracking driving the car, what little I do, always looking for incomings. But I feel I am preserving a piece of original history, and that is what I like, nerve wracking or not. But I do so appreciate those that get out and drive their cars. Bravo! Enjoy yours!

    Dino246gts
     

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