Fraud in the Dino Auction Action? Not good for buyers & sellers

Why does it seem we keep getting farther and farther away from absolutes? While smooth talking lawyers always seem to find a way to take things apart word by word, the "intent" of law, in my limited education, is that it should be understandable to the common person.

Describing a car, or a horse, in any case should be likewise reasonably understood in common terms a common person would likely be able to understand. If I tell you a horse is believed to be two years old, that I am selling it for the original owner, and that it was only ridden on sundays by a little girl, and that the first and only shoes it ever had are believed to be still nailed to its feet, you would buy the horse based on my description and honesty at a value comensurate with a simularly aged and used animal.

If however you were later to find the horse was in fact 22 years old, that the only days it wasnt ridden was on sundays, and it was ridden every other day by a 500 pound women 12 miles to town and back, and that its feet were so full of old nail holes from changing shoes they looked like swiss cheese, I believe you would feel taken adavantage of and demand someone make amends.

This is what I mean by absolutes. An odometer is taken so much as gospel, and sold that way, that its funny so many put so much wieght on them. But when an internationally recognised auction house waxes poetic about mileage, they seem to be at least somewhat culpable. The car was described as a low mileage one owner car in almost total original condition with a rare option wheel package that never even really existed. One discrepency could be overlooked. Two become very questionable, and three blatant discrepencies screams fraud so loud I am surprised more of you cant see it. If I sold a car on Fchat like this and was found out, I would never hear the end of it from you guys.

There is no way in hell anyone here would pay top dollar for a car described as 4K original miles that would sit still for it if found the car had rolled over. Anyone that knows anything about cars knows what rolled over once means, and thats what this car did. The absence of truth is still a lie.

 

The language in auction catalogs is a joke. Why do they even bother? About 80% is puffed-up history about the marque and model, and the rest is weasel-words, thinly-veiled disclaimers, litigation-proof obfuscation and "the owner says, but we certainly don't vouch for him" language about the particular car being auctioned.

Jack

 

All of the auctions use phrases like, as new condition, restored to perfection, one of the worlds best, best known example, etc, etc. All followed by the the words,"so says the owner". Takes them off the hook.

 

Mark True enough, however any car, ten years older or more, is legally exempt from true miles. Steve

 

The leather looks very shiney! The red "Daytona" style stripes look too bright. There was no cracking in the leather. In fact it looks brand new! Even if it was original with very few miles the leather would surely dry out...it just looks like a "tuned" honda leather interior. Also it has the Incorrect steering wheel...it is just clear that it is not original.

 

Does the current owner know he was taken? If not, would someone find out who he is? And tell him? And have him take part in this thread?

This act of RM to misrepresent should be taken seriously, because any one of us could have been taken in a similar way if we didn't know where to look and what to look for when buying an auctioned car. If this fraudulent auction style goes un-noticed, who knows what things the auctions houses will let slide in the future?

 

It sounds like you think this is an isolated case.

 

Regarding the mileage: yes, you can tear apart how it was worded, but the auction house did go further to suggest that the condition of the interior, etc was inline with a 5,000 mile car. This is extremely deceptive as it purposely backs up what they would know to be a misleading statement.

 

Not in PA.

There's no mileage exemption that I'm aware of, and I've owned cars here 35 years.

Each year, when you renew your registration, and get the car inspected, the mileage is noted on both documents. And, you have to affirm that it is true and correct.

Even classic or antique plates. Although the classic is a permanent registration, they still record your mileage each year at inspection.

DM

 

it's hard to say, the owner/buyer hasn't surfaced. i asked rm about any items that didn't close and if they were going to be reauctioned or go back to the seller, their answer was "yes", but couldn't provide other info.

i suspect the buyer wasn't taken. regardless of the sell price, a car in better shape (interior wise) sold for $13k more two weeks later. if the mechanicals and body are good, which noone has disputed, the interior can be done for that much and still have the means to support the price paid. i truely don't belive that this car brought the money it did because of the low mileage claim. based on dino sales, both public and private, over the last six months, it seems to be market coorect. i have been a big skeptic of what market is and was looking forward to the two auctions here in texas (much less likely to attract the typical auction crowd) to see if market was what i am hearing.

i am not endorsing the market or what it seems to be, but this car found a buyer that one would have to believe was some what knowledgeable to bid what they did. we all called bs based on the description a long time before the auction. why should be so arrogant to think we are the only ones capable of doing so? maybe the bid was appropriate based on the same observations.....

 

Well put, I never thought of it that way...

 

We are all big boys. But RM needs a standing up. Great line to end this thread.

John

 

07902 is back on the market.

Listed at CHF 600,000 / USD $680,000 / GBP £450,000.

Seller has confirmed to my contact that it is the ex-Ponder car.

1974 Ferrari 246 'Dino' - 246 GTS MIT BORRANI RÄDER Klimaanlage | Classic Driver Market

Right then...

 

Ummm.... WOW!!!

They are awfully proud of this car.

Shawn

 

It must be the TEXAS factor

 

Welcome back 07902!