Bradan F355 F1 major service

Refinished valve covers.
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On so many of these Bradan threads I see the engine removed from the cradle and put on a stand to fix something found when inspecting the engine. What fixes require the engine to be removed from the cradle?

I'll add that these threads scare me because none ever seem to be a straight forward belt change without finding a bunch of other leaks.

 

Hi Braden!! Beautiful valve covers!! Are they powder coated?
PS I love the Threads!!!
Mike NJ 355/GTS

 

Back up to post 26 for the answer...

 

I saw that. I guess what I was asking is that none of these Bradan threads are ever straightforward. They always find something else wrong besides the regular belt service. In this thread, that includes the lower timing drive bearings, rear main seal, front cover gaskets, Rear cover 0-ring and front main seal. So just about everything.

How does the guy that does this in his garage handle that? Can these things be replaced while the engine is still in the cradle or does it have to be placed on a stand?

 

if someone gets away with just needing the parts from a major service kit, during a major, I assume is lucky.

my mechanic says there are always other areas that need attention during a major as we saw here.

my first major of my ownership will be due spring 2016.
so I'll see how much more $$$ it will require over and above the major kit and labour.

 

Does anyone know if all this "other stuff" requires equipment, like an engine stand and hoist, beyond just removing the engine? I have a 4 post lift, so dropping the engine is easy. I also have a good friend that's a former Lamborghini tech, so I assume if he can rebuild and Aventador engine identifying and changing some of these seals and bearings is easy. What I don't have is a hoist and an engine stand. If someone could chime in with when that's needed and whether there are any DIY solutions it would be very helpful.

 

You don't need an engine hoist, you can put a chain/strap around your 2 or 4 post lift and use that to pull it off of the table.

As for an engine stand, anything universal/inexpensive would work as far as I can tell.

 

Good point about the lift, although there will be a car on it but I guess I could attach a chain to the rear beam. I wonder if a stand from a place like Harbor Freight will work?

 

It is amazing that someone who adheres to the Ferrari schedule for majors (3 years) will need all the extra "while you are in theres" at each service and someone else can go 5 to 7 years with out a problem. Interpretation. Much of what is done is unnecessary. There is a reason why there is a difference between a 15k service kit and a 30k service kit in terms of what seals are included, and were aren't typically talking about major service intervals of such mileage.

Ask yourself a simple question. Why are people replacing spark plugs at every major regardless of mileage? Sure, it's only $176 at Ricambi prices, but replacing plugs that have 3 or 4k miles on them is just a waste for a street car. Like I said above, the guy who goes 5-7 years between majors replaces them 1/2 as often as the guy who does a major every 3 years. A lot of this stuff just goes against common sense. That seems to be commodity severely lacking in the Ferrari community.

 

Ouch !!!

 

There are a number of common problem areas we check on the 355 when doing a major.

-Inspect rear main seal weep hole between trans
-Remove lower timing drive gears to weld fences
-Inspect lower timing drive bearings for leaks
-remove cams and inspect valve lifters
-Leak down test to check valve guides
-Clean injectors depending on how the cars running
-Degree the cams on assembly and balance throttle bodies.

It looks like allot of work but really isnt once you have the engine out of the car. They are super easy to work on and allot of common repeating issues we see across the cars.

The big issue I find allot of shops run into is not checking behind the lower timing drive gears. So you have a car that leaking oil really bad down the front of the motor and guys just toss it up to cam seals leaking down. So they do a routine major and clean everything up to find the car leaking oil a few weeks later. The problem is you have to remove the engine again and pull it all back apart to redo those bearings. So your better off just checking every single thing while its on a stand to avoid any potential issues down the road. Trust me I learned the hard way.

Any cheap engine stand works for supporting the motor just make sure you bolt the yoke up to the motor nice and tight with the correct hardware before you let it rest on the stand.

As far as painting the valve covers which we do on all majors free of charge...
-Strip the valve covers with paint remover.
-Tape all gasket surfaces and valve cover vent
-Media blast them to etch the surface with glass dust
-spray a base primer (black) which the factory doesn't do.
-heat the valve cover up to about 70-90, basically just warm.
-VHT red wrinkle paint about 3 coats waiting 10 min between each coat
-Leave the cover in a room about 80 degrees so it wrinkle nice and slow, I find baking it is to fast and gets your a really course looking wrinkle.
-Once you have that dry to really make it match up you can have a painter spray it with two coats of rosso corsa to deepen the red.

Hope that answers most of your questions but feel free to email me at [email protected] with any additional questions.

 

I tell all my customers to wait 5 years between majors, 3 years is overkill to me. As far as all the while you are in theres most guys like there cars to be leak free when we send them back. And the issues we are addressing don't happen in 3 years. They happen over 10-15 years so the next time we see the car in 5 years it should just need a routine belt change. With that said I have seen a brand new lower timing drive bearing from Ferrari leak with in 15 min of the car running so its a gamble if it will be dry after 5 years.

Besides the major every 5 years we just like to see the cars for annual services every year. Most of the cars don't get driven enough to really need a fluid change to be honest. But the big thing you benefit from is having a set of eyes look over your entire car to catch an issue before it spreads. Everything on these cars is a domino affect that you try to limit by catching is very early in failure. So in short the cars we see every single year end up having less expensive repair bills then cars we see every 2-3 years.

The F355 has a really bad reputation service wise and honestly across the board a neglected 308 bill is just as rough. But for the guys that stay on top of there cars they can vouch its problem free and inexpensive to own. I can't begin to tell you how many repairs guys pass on or put off to save money then cry about it a year later when it creates a larger problem and repair bill. Same as never putting a dollar into your house and crying after 10 years how expensive everything is to fix.

 

Braden group,
I am new to the board and I want to thank you for sharing your knowledge, and providing the great pictures and detailed write up. I wish you were closer to SC!

 

That's a tough one. If you're in there and you see a seal seeping a bit I guess why not replace it. But if it could make it another 5 years I guess why spend the money. With these Bradan cars I think they're selling some of them and could probably get away with leaving the bad parts in there so good for them for replacing them.

Plugs are only $100 at Ebay prices. So do you replace 5 year old plugs with only 5,000 miles on them? That's probably overkill but look at some of the Bradan pics. The plugs don't always look too great.

 

If someone sent you a lower timing drive gear would you weld it for a fee?

 

Thanks! check out our subforums for more service threads. Any specific questions feel free to email me at [email protected].

Bradan - FerrariChat.com

 

An easy job that I do here all the time.
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I agree. Not to be that guy but at the end of the day its a Ferrari and I think they should be maintained to the highest standards. I always tell guys when I think they can hold off on a repair or tackle it another way. When a car comes in I do almost a full vehicle PPI with pricing on every single thing wrong with the car. Then guys tell me whats important to them and we trim it down to what needs to be addressed asap and what we can hold off on. But it does get frustrating when guys pass on a mechanical defect to paint there bumper...

As far as the cam gear welding. Sure but a good local tig welder can take care of this for you. Just wire wheel the plating off so you get a nice clean weld and make sure you clean the back side of the weld where the timing belt runs along.

 

Wow, that is scary. I would strike of anything cosmetic and leave everything mechanical on the list to do. That is because I drive it and don't care about rock chips on the nose.

I guess some people don't drive them and look at them in the garage instead.

 

But it's true. Total lack of common sense in many areas. It's not just with Ferraris or cars in general. It's an affliction of the general population. I think that over the last 20 years or so common sense in general has become a rare commodity. But don't get me going on that. This is not the thread for it.

That's exactly where I disagree. At the end of the day it's a car, and should be maintained as such. That's what 30 years with a 308 QV has taught me. That it is a Ferrari is why people get away with the idea that it is more than a car. It isn't. It's a car. That doesn't mean it should be allowed to drip oil on the floor, or be driven with split CV boots, or what ever. By all means fix what breaks. But to keep it running correctly doesn't require fixing things that aren't broken because they might break tomorrow, even though the odds are slim to none and the consequences minor.

If you service my car and tell me the water is not leaking but the shaft has excessive play and the pump will likely start leaking soon, then I would say fix it. But if you tell me to replace the water pump while the engine is out, even though there is noting wrong with it, just incase, I'll say no.

By the way, just to make it clear my comments have noting to do with the quality of service offered by Bradan which seems to be at a very high standard.

 

O yeah totally agree in that case. We don't replace things that are not broken or go fishing for work. Its kind of a mix of keeping the cars in tip top shape and covering your ass as a commercial shop to be honest. If a guy passes on a repair I really think he needs we need to put that down in writing. Some guys feel like its holding a gun to there head so I just have them send a confirmation email instead of ruining there service records.

I hear you on the water pumps but keep in mind its a totally different situation on a F355. You have to pull the motor to replace it so at this point I just tell all my guys to do it. Its the same exact water pump setup on a 550/575/360/612 all which you can replace fairly easily. So on those cars I tell them wait until it becomes loud or starts leaking. On a F355/348 we just do it.

As far as spark plugs go they come out looking terrible most times. If you just get some NKG plugs of amazon its the same exact thing just not in a yellow box. I think its worth doing but also try to check out the carbon build up in the intake port if possible. If its really gross its worth doing the plugs and rebuilding the injectors also.

For the DIY guys just order the service kit from Dan at Ricambi. He really does offer the most complete service kit on the market to save you allot of hassles during the job. Pick his brain also if you have any questions the guy really knows his stuff. I always laugh when I tell him a part and I hear him mumbling the exact part number as he looks it up or get an email back at 2 am. There is a reason why everyone vouches for him!

 

Do you replace the water pumps every time or just rebuild them?

 

They rebuild them generally.

 

Anyone know if the water pump rebuilt can be DIY? Looks like the guy that rebuilds them retired.