430 vs 599

Thank you Bob.

As to playing with springs- I guess if you are familiar with doing this, it would be OK but it seems to me those springs are held under tension and I'd hate to think what could happen to a person if one of those things got away from him or her. I'll leave that to the pros.

As to will you have bad shocks- seems to me its really a hit or miss thing. My car really doesn't have any issues and I have driven it frequently at the track. I wonder if that has any impact- I can tell you it did wonders for bedding in the brakes- at first they were like on/off and hard to modulate. After the track they were more progressive and smoother to use.

That Eurospares website is something I can spend a lot of time looking at! Look at all those badges and parts! OMG.

Heres a crazy question- could you fit 599 GTO shocks to a GTB? Im guessing maybe yes but only with a lot of other work because you'd need a different suspension computer and then probably different springs, maybe different anti roll bars etc.... just wondering. I remember the GTB shocks recalibrate every 1/10th second whereas the GTO shocks I think do it every 1/1000th? Its a big difference.

 

By the times you did all that it might be cheaper to buy a GTO.lol

 

Unloading the springs is about as complicated as changing a tire. So really no danger there. Again, I'd have to see them up close to determine if it is in fact a DIY project. 99% sure it is.

Knock on wood, I will know this all too soon!

Regarding the brakes; a lot of people bought into the Ceramics. Great technology advancement, but they're not as effective under normal driving conditions as they work better with increased heat.

Friend recently purchased M4. I asked why he didn't want the CCM package. He said the rep told em they are squeaky unless under intense heat..

Is all this correct?

 

Nah, they work great. My 599 ceramics did not squeal. My GT3 with steel brakes squeals like a pig.

 

Ditto. I've never heard of anyone unhappy with their carbon ceramics on a 599. They saved my bacon when a moose jumped out of the woods this fall! Pretty sure the only squeal was from my wife. Until you've made a true panic stop, you can't appreciate how incredibly good they are.

 

Sean- No, in general the CCMs work fine once bedded in and give far superior stopping power to the much smaller steel brakes. Some complaints about mild squealing, but usually cured with a couple of hard stops. Not much, if any, brake dust, either. Lots of hearsay going around about most things Ferrari, and CCMs are one of the subjects. Lots of folks here have them. Biggest complaint is the price of rotors if you track your CCM equipped Ferrari. Those are coming down in price, too, though, helped by the freefall of the euro recently.

Never ask someone with steel brakes why he does not have CCMs. You will get a lot of tap dancing, but the real reason is while they were optional for the original purchaser, they were very, very expensive. On the 612, very rare until the OTO, and only available with HGTC or as a separate option in late 07 and early 08 pre-OTO.

 

taz- that's interesting. i agree that a few hard stops to bed the brakes eliminates the occassional squeak... but i have noticed that the brakes aren't quite as strong the first few stops after an overnight cold start. any thoughts?

 

They do act a little funny in the cold. They stop fine, but I seem to need to dig in a bit more and then the stop is abrupt. Not smooth in cold weather. At least seems to me based on my admittedly limited cold weather driving this fall.

 

I believe there are bedding instructions for the CCMs, but I have not saved them yet. Will see if I can find them. Not an issue with my CER ceramics.

 

LOL Jim- you're right- I was just shooting off a silly idea.

Sean, I clearly didn't know that about the springs. Very interesting. Thank you. I enjoy learning new things. Just wondering about the built up energy in the springs because that looks scary to me.

As to CCM vs steel brakes- my experience is this:

On the street and for panic stops they are about the same. On the street the CCMs make a whole lot less brake dust and look cool. I've been told, and my observations seem to back this up, CCM's don't actually make quite as much friction per unit of space as do metal brakes and thus, they require a larger rotor. Which in turn means larger wheels. So while the rotors are lighter, they are also larger. Also CCMs are very allergic to silicon, which is present in many wheel dressings like Armor All. So you want to keep silicon based dressings away. Apparently the silicone can get into those rotors and once in, they lose much of the friction they can generate. The CCMs are also more brittle and more susceptible to little pebbles chipping them. And also are more fragile if you accidentally bang it when changing a tire. But- they reject heat a lot better than metal brakes.

So they seem like they would be good for the track. Except, on the track those "lifetime" pads and rotors wear out pretty quickly- at least the street versions do. And depending on your driving style, it could be a few track days and then you need new pads- expensive. And after replacing the pads 2x Ferrari recommends (or at least used to recommend... err.. insist!!) you replace the rotors too- very very expensive. So many frequent track drivers seem to prefer metal brakes as they are just easier to replace and some of them are truly excellent as well.

My take is for a street car like a Ferrari, they are very cool. Its really that simple.

On a car that could be daily driven like an M3/4, I would want the metal brakes because of the aforementioned expense and more fragile nature.

Aln, when was the last time you had the brake fluid changed?

I recommend that as part of the yearly service.

I find the CCMs on my 599 feel about the same even in cold weather- BUT- it could be I drive a lot more gently when its cold out so maybe Im not really in a position to feel if theres a difference. I simply know the tires won't have anywhere the same grip. Its probably like 50% of the grip when its warmer out.

If you get a squeak on the brakes sometimes but hard stopping seems to eliminate it, I wonder if sometimes a small film of debris gets between the pad and the rotor and that causes a squeak.

 

I had to make an emergency stop earlier when some brainless moron made a U-Turn into the right lane and then suddenly moved to the left lane at very low speed right in front of me.

My 612, with steel brake, stopped so violently, I feel I would have gone through the windshield had I not had the seat belts on. Never felt stopping power like that before.

So, I think the steel brakes are just fine for the open road, unless your looking for a jail sentence. For track, CCMs for sure.

 

FWIW, the ZR1 which came with CCB's had a procedure for bedding that required 50 successive stops from 60mph. Those that did it said they were boiling smoke and had white ash on them when done but rinsed right off. Stopping during normal driving was way better thereafter so they said. I also understand that these were the same brakes as used on the Enzo or somehow related to them.

 

Interesting comments. I think a 599 owner should see about posting some open wheel well photo's and I will be more than happy to advise if it is a DIY project.

Again, most times this process is about as complicated as changing a tire or installing new brake pads.. Can't speak intelligently until I see them up close.

 

yup. it was done in october. but as i said, the weakness is very short lived (only first 2-3 uses, after a cold start). after that they work quite well.

 

Lately I had lunch with my good friend Vince Loughran who is manager of Le Circuit Tremblant the official Ferrari training course.
They had 12× 458 Italia for the whole season, at the end these cars cummulate 3,600 miles of track time and before sending them back (to the states) the only thing they do is changing the pads so the ccm is really bullet proof.
BTW they had no noticeable maintenance issue on any of them so the whole car is also trustworthy.

 

I also believe the cc brakes are bullet proof - have had them on three cars and never had to replace them - my 2008 Scud has had brake pads replaced 4 times (extensive tracking) and they are still fine - just had them checked at Ferrari of Fort Lauderdale - so the myth of replacing them after two pad changes is BS - also I don't get any brake squeal out of my two cc brake cars - maybe just lucky

 

This is all great news and welcomed responses!

 

Great info. Thank you for posting. aln, I suspect its just cold pads & rotors.

I often suspected the FNA "requirement" for the rotor change was more about selling parts than actual safety.

 

And now we know you're trolling.

 

Unfortunately, that is likely the most accurate statement he made during all of his posts. The market is certainly over-bought. However, that guy is worred about the here and now. I am 28..

Got plenty of time for my money to grow and even in the worst of times; the likely-hood of the S&P being above 2000 in 2049 is darn near a guarantee..

 

"Heres a crazy question- could you fit 599 GTO shocks to a GTB? Im guessing maybe yes but only with a lot of other work because you'd need a different suspension computer and then probably different springs, maybe different anti roll bars etc.... just wondering. I remember the GTB shocks recalibrate every 1/10th second whereas the GTO shocks I think do it every 1/1000th? Its a big difference."

The Eurospares website shows the same part number for the GTO & GTB shocks, pn257058. Maybe the change is just in the computer/electronics and shocks are the same?

 

Stop braging about your age you youngin

 

+1. Lol.

 

President Edwards - How are ya!!!

When I own an 599 loan free - I will be throwing a Ferrari Party in Wilmington, NC. All you well established Gents are invited. I will spend A thousand Dollars alone on high quality bourbon and three boxes of cigars in celebration!!!!!!!



This internet link is for our thrifty FXTrader friend:

2015 Lamborghini Huracan for sale in Chicago, IL at Chicago Motor Cars - RITEDRIVE?

He can't make any excuses now..

 

I wonder how anyone who bought an Aventador based on its superior tech and Top Gear lap times feels about the baby Lamborghini totally abusing and undercutting it in a vicious fashion by Top Gear lap times- latest episode has it. Aventador achieves a very fast 1.16.5 and new baby Lambo Huracan has 1.15.4.

If I had just made this purchase based on these criterion.. oh boy....


(apologies group, I could not resist this).